Post evidence or stop whining please.

The cards are saying otherwise. I begin to doubt whether the stars I love and trust is a thing of the past.

For approximately 100,000 hands last december and this year, I saw a pattern i.e fish hitting incredible outs always in big pots, and decent regs being coolered me day in and out.

When you have a decent edge against a pool of player, you ought to win more but I haven't seen stacking somebody for the last few months. The cards are like you bluff they call, you value bet and they fold.

Seeing people playing a almost perfect game, I doubt what goes on behind the back. Like I said this RNG had intelligence.

unlike you

So it's your theory that a public traded Canadian company, supported by some of the leading financial institutions in the world, has spent $5billion so that they can introduce some far-fetched fraud that is focused entirely upon changing the cards that you are dealt?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you're an important person, but doesn't that seem just a little bit absurd to you? Do you think that there are many other $5billion conspiracies designed to defraud you out of a few dozen/hundred/thousand dollars, or is this the only one?

Through time I have found it is a losing Gamblers nature to blame it on a rig. People who lose money betting Horses think the Drivers and Trainers fix the Races. People who lose money playing Slots think the machines are set to beat, only them. The icing on the cake was the other day , when a usually sane and sensible co-worker (who is a big sports fan) actually was convinced the Super Bowl was rigged. Why , because he lost betting money. Most gambling hosts have the takeout set so they make a large profit and would not jeopardize this by rigging against individuals. As a gambler, I have questioned many losses in different endeavors , but looking back it is often poor judgement on ones own behalf that contributes the most to losing. All forms of Gambling are tough to beat, and there are many people in each area doing a lot more homework and study than others. The % taken at any given event ensures there will be more losers than winners. Poker does have a strong skill level attached , concerning math etc. Horse Racing take years of handicapping to get a feel for , and knowing when horses are sharp and dull along with other things gives an astute gambler a little edge. I will never believe that a team would throw the Super bowl even if they had to play the final game for free. It's what 99.9% of them live for. So , Yes , Gambling is rigged . That is set in the takeout. The amount left is up for grabs and it takes hard work to stay ahead. The less your willing to put in to it , the more your likely to think it is rigged against you.

Where do horse racing come here seriously? Poker is a beatable game in the micro-stakes. For strange reasons, it's been controlled in a way that prevent certain individual from winning.

When hands are winning close to expected percentage, I had no problem but when there is a significant deviation from expected outcome for a consistently long period with good enough large sample, you got to question.

No one is clean in the gambling industry. If they can squeeze out a few cents from somebody, they will. And I'm saying that it's the case here.

Wow!! I can't say a word with the wisdom that you showered upon me. But you should also know that the cards dealt to you had winning mathematical expectation. As long as it is reasonable, no suspicion and I won't definitely waste my time here.

I believe that 100,000 hands is quite a large sample to see that something is deviated from expected norms. And it had been recently(last few months). That's why I got to question so that they can stand up and give a reason.

Create a testable, specific rig theory. So far all you have said is that you "see something." That's a bit vague. Lots of riggies see all sorts of things.

Provide your data for analysis and show the results of your study.

Have others repeat your test to verify a rig exists in the Pokerstars RnG.


Do the above and I will send you $5,000.



When can we expect some progress from you in this regard?


All the best.

Well actually I am more open minded then most which is why i often lean to more accurate realizations. I paid my entire way through university with online poker winnings back then it was so easy I believe I could have taught any random person within an hour or two how to make a living from poker.

I stopped during my third year of uni to concentrate on my degree and when I returned I was introduced to a rude awakening. see in the past I had made consistent profit from the tiniest amount of effort.

I found when I returned I was a losing player I lost it how could I now lose at $5 games when before it was so easy no one even tries there right?

so I was convinced it was rigged I even made a fool out of myself on another poker forum saying so I was once a riggie.

However I decided I would buy a subscription to shark scope, I regularly looked up opponents who gave me bad beats wanting to see there stats eventually i looked at mine.

I noticed something odd firstly I was not losing to the other players, I was losing to the rake if the rake had been eliminated entirely I would still be a winning player.

further I noticed certain games I had a highly positive ROI so was it only rigged for the ones I was losing at?

that's quite specific. I started playing one or two tables to sharkscope everyone at the table and searching players to find who regs were I noticed something discouraging about half the players were regs in the past it was one or two now at a 9 handed sng it was 4-5 sometimes 6-7 depending on the hour of day.

I looked at icimizer and found that in fact the shoving ranges I thought were fishy were correct and it was me making the mistakes. If it wasn't for the few fish that had no skill I would have lost a lot more.

I looked at odds Became more adapted learned some counter intuitive things and became a winning player again.

I have since that time won several thousand.

I am not close minded mankind is a selfish species there has been consistent scams in the past and very exploitative and if you look at nature we are hardly an exception we are just more sophisticated at it.

I dont think that if the poker sites were to rig the site they would do it in some blatantly transparent way as it would be spotted rather quickly.

However any way they did it could be spotted the question would be how many people are willing to actually look at stats for more complicated theories etc? well maybe not on here maybe so but someone with the right back ground and credibility would eventually spot it and point it out then the whole thing comes tumbling down.

thats quite some risk also you have all the staff members that could know and talk. However yes its always possible but where does my money come from? If I am in profit someone has to pay for that and I don't see why the sites would rig it in my favor.

in fact it does not even make sense for the sites to rig it people need to be making money for the sites to make optimal amounts under current models.

For example in the game I am targeting I noticed when the regs dont play the games hardly run, as recs dont open enough tables. get a few regs multi tabling and suddenly you have a large amount of games and rake going. its true with no regs that the sites would take more money proportionally from the recs but its also true that much less games would run so overall the sites
need grinders under the current model for optimal profit.

although they tend to be attempting to move away from this model with things like spin and goes etc. how that will pan out I can only speculate but yes they are now trying to reduce the edge increase the speed etc.

Yes when your running bad it is natural to question if there is a rig you are cursed, god is punishing you etc etc.

However there are two approaches you can take you can either, guess rant and vent get mocked get nowhere lose and never have enough proof to back your claim or you can learn the math and win.

Learn the math and you will win because 1 of two things has to happen at that point 1. you start winning understand the math and variance and become much better of for it or 2. if it is rigged now you really can provide proof get the attention of the right people with that proof and you can have vengeance on those so called corrupt sites.

now there are one or two exceptions to this (sites that will not allow you to record or save hands and will not provide you with hand histories making proofing a rig impossible) however most poker sites you can gather this data for. and win either way.

many people here state that you need to find proof to support your accusation anecdotes emotional rants wild accusations or conspiracy theories as to why it would be in a sites interest to do it are not proof.

raw data statistics and maths are.

How much had it deviated? 3 SDs? 4? Or do you not even know what an SD is and are just basing this on fish winning "too much"?

The Reason is simple , you are just not good enough. If that is wrong then show the proof with your 100,000 hand sample. You are just like a lot of gamblers and ,somewhat how I once thought. I took the time to learn the game of poker from the bottom and now see it was my game that was costing me , not some imaginary rig. You will too if you want or just keep blaming it on something else . If you don't believe this then F.Y. and remain the degenerate you presently are deadfox.

I believe that ipoker and prima are rig towards winning rb players based on how cards run there though i dont have much nlh experience at these sites and limit poker in prima runs mainly good though no limit action at prima, and limit holdem is semi good at ipoker where the rig though is also clear, plo being way the worst. I have tried and tried at many skins during many years at these sites and have given them up.

Other than that i have experienced the starting booms at many revolution skins and once or twice been heavily rigged also, not just balanced, and why the balancing was clear was because the games were easy but i couldnt win anymore, and why the deeper rig was clear was for the same reason. My opinion as so is that there is a starting boom, and it cools down later but can be more than that if winning more or less and if destroying the games, it can be radical. It is however to be noted, that i am okay with the network these days and like the cards relatively okay and the feel is human, i like playing there though i dont think the cards at more or less of their tables are truly random but they are not any better anywhere else either.

I have no major issues with 888, stars, party. I have had my starting booms at all of them and needed to work with my game ever since. The problems here but at stars is the higher rake one pays but i have these sites on my trusted list and ones money also is relatively safe here.

What comes to the illusion of the rig, there are at least three factors. First, when one starts in good games or in any games, one is unlikely to run into a major breakeven or losing streak, but the longer one has been playing, the more sure one will run into a one. The second point is coming from that, the results need to be looked on a larger field than one might think and the runs inside that are random, that is, can have any kind of periods from a to z, and those periods create illusions about the rig. Then there is the selective memory issue about those periods and still smaller runs that will create illusions about the manipulated cards. Keeping this in mind, the games are not rigged.

It should also be noted how many sites have up to banned winning players and sometimes even blocking like scandinavians. It is also known that winning sports bettors rate to get banned. The sites dont like heavy winners destroying their games. As so, there is a strong motivation to rig the cards.

Also, take a look into the many sites and more so these days, into their efforts to get things better for the rec players and worse for the reg players.

I understand that you are saying this from business point of view. If online poker is made illegal of course you definitely go broke. Likewise, there are also players who grind day in and out to pay bills by playing poker.

My point is simply that the site hate winners and would interfere so that the winners don't win too much i.e bad for business and thus the artificial RNG, the intelligent thing kicked in.

To answer you, I am not degenerate. I'm not the best but good enough to beat the micro-stakes after years and years of hard work and learning. To tell you the truth, the variance needs to even out in my favor. The deviation cannot continue for to long and hence the suspicion.

Do you know that I'm eliminated almost every first hand of that pokerstars all in shootout. Do you think it's real, it looks like a pre determined outcome. Only the chosen one wins.

Everyone is forced to go all-in every hand, right? If the game was NOT rigged you would be eliminated almost every first hand. If there are 9 players at the table, you would be eliminated on the first hand approximately 89% of the time.

The shoot outs are actually heads up hands, though it is nice of Stars to run the promos for free to then rig them or something.

Nice to see some conventional riggies back in - sort of like a refreshing wave of familiar paranoia, though I did like


Often times riggies will have completely opposite views of the rig, but nice to see the same riggie experience that all by himself in a single post. I guess he covers all the bases that way...

Yes, Jorge was quite amusing at first, but became very tired, very quickly.

CBA to quote but I'm confused.

If the site bans winning players, but it's rigged against winning players, how are there any winning players to ban?

The riggie was actually saying it's rigged in favor of the winning players, so they apparently rig it in their favor until they win too much, then ban them.

Makes complete sense.

I think your logic is a bit off. A 5 billion dollar firm can defraud you as easily as a Full Tilt or Lock Poker. Google Enron or WorldCom if you have any doubts. If I recall correctly, Pokerstars has been accused of bank fraud, money laundering and illegal gambling in the US and at least one of its founders has been under federal indictment.

The companies you are citing all had pretty simple means of defrauding - they simply stole people's money, and eventually the money ran out for them to keep the pretense of a legitimate business. Nothing new about that - that happens in all industries, and even some governments.

What does that have to do with every site that still exists (and even those now shut down) from using an overly complicated RnG rig that somehow has never been caught on any site (unless one refers to the 20th century and Planet Poker which had no financial impact).

That is one of the reasons why most riggies actually hurt their own cause - they believe in crimes that are completely impractical because those best serve their faith. If Pokerstars wanted to steal people's money then they could find many easier ways than a rig of available hand data to do just that. Even the accusations you speak of had nothing to do with RnG rigging, and pretty sure in the end they were not found guilty of anything, but then I doubt that matters to you. In the end each consumer has the choice of doing business with any company or not, so if they believe a site is criminal they should avoid them. Common sense, although most riggies ignore that as they continue to play and complain about being cheated.

I assume you agree with all of this?

All the best.

I've never been a "riggie" and have been a winning player for a number of years, however since the Amaya takeover of Pokerstars I have been seeing a very disturbing occurrence happening at increasing regularity at the cash tables. Basically some random newbie will turn up, no information is available on them when you look them up and I can only say they appear to be psychic. They absolutely crush the table, playing a variety of unbelievable hands, always calling a bluff correctly, never getting coolered, win a huge amount of BB's in a short space of time and then disappear, never to be seen or heard from again.

This isn't at the micro stakes either, these players are clearing up some serious money and I'm not the only person who has concerns over what is going on. I don't believe the rng is rigged, in fact I know it isn't, my data show this, but you've got to be pretty naive to think that people aren't cheating in other ways.

I am just so glad and relieved that the whole debate of whether PS is rigged or not is over and the definitive and un-refutable answer is out there for all to see. All any non riggie has to do to be converted is watch any Spin and Go tables for more than 15 - 30 minutes and conversion happens ...praise the lord.....their eyes are miraculously opened.

Anyone who says its not rigged after watching for 30 minutes is clinically insane.

Detectable in as little as 15 minutes observation, and yet undetectable in hand histories - those guys at Stars sure are tricky!

Post screen names.

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The post two posts after that one:



Nothing since then until now with the post about Spin and Go tables.