Wait a minute.... He claims that government licensed poker rooms are rigged?

Not 100% sure, but I believe so.

People gave you many reasons why that call wasn't profitable in the long run. Folding KK preflop also isn't profitable.

Perhaps that's why people recommend not doing either one? Just a thought.

I'm playing on 888poker, not on the NJ site.

I just know it. A minute ago I was holding QQ, one raiser pre. I flat. A fish also calls.

Flop comes with some garbage like 278r. Fish leads out for a full pot sized bet, and the initial raiser calls him.

I snapfolded, knowing this was a cooler been set up by 888poker to try and get another stack off me.

Fish showed down a set of 8's and the PFR showed down 78. Obvious 888poker attempted cooler is obvious.

You flat called a 2-bet with Queens.

And you think OTHER players are fish? After commenting on how "Given he flatted my 3bet I ruled out AA since I'd expect him to 4bet with that."???

Hahahaha

Edit: That's what it said before he edited it.

This is a fine thought process, but you are missing 1 crucial element. What does your opponent think you have? His vpip is 10%, so he's tight. Like really tight. We know this. This means we also know he's not ****ing around. So when he overbets like this he must be doing it for a very specific reason. He's not going to risk 80BB's to protect the 10 he put in preflop. He probably went allin because he has a note on you that you never fold anything ever so he figured this was the best way to get value from you. All he has to do is think you're playing 88+ and he knows he's getting your stack. In fact, HE played the implied odds against you perfectly by just flatting. He knew a 4bet from a 10vpip player basically says "i have AA/KK" which he didnt want you to think. I wonder what your VPIP was at the time, since 10vpip opponent do not typically overbet like this. He must have literally had no respect for your game at all to think this would get paid off. To be fair I cant honestly profess that I'm always going to fold KK in this spot. After the above analysis I could easily talk myself into a call because I'd tell myself "well villain must have already considered the above, therefore it must be a bluff because why would he pass on value betting me normally?"

As for the QQ hand I dont quite remember it, but you did misplay it by calling down like that. I cant remember the HH and if I would have folded or not, but by flatting all his bets you really had no idea what he had. If you had 4bet preflop or raised the flop villain would have probably 5bet or shoved and you'd at least have a moment to consider "am I beat here?". I also dont remember his stats or whether to take that into consideration. Im by no means advocating to "bet to see where we're at". By 4betting pre or raising the flop I'm doing it 100% for value, but sometimes things change once your opponent wakes up and you have to reconsider.

Also seriously, this whole idea that 1200 hands or whatever is some accomplishment really needs to get lost. If you arent seeing overpair vs overpair every 1000 hands I'd think the RNG was broken. You really need to come to the realization that you have to put in A LOT of hands before you can be upset about stuff like this.

Good fold.

But man, god help the defendant if you ever end up on a jury...

So against 2 fish, QQ on a 278r flop is a snapfold facing a PSB, but against an 11/8 nit, KK on a T73r flop facing a 3x pot overbet is a fistpump snapcall. Was the fish or the initial raiser the "new" player?

Must be awful to deal with such terrible rigging.

This was the first hand villain had raised in 20 hands of play. And it doesn't matter whether I should have flatcalled or not since 888poker was setting up the cooler anyway. I was favourite preflop over both of them - and a massive favourite at that. BOTH of them outdrew me, so even if one of them for some reason got scared and folded, the guy with the set would easily be able to clean up my stack. Saw it coming.

My VPIP would have been something like 22/16 to him, we've played together a few times before, he'd never overbet shoved the pot before but I'd never played that many pots heads up with him.

888poker dealing me KK or QQ while giving someone else AA is really beyond a joke though. How often is this exactly supposed to happen because I'm even more certain of this one that I am of fish completing their runner runner draws too much. Like 50% of the time when I have KK someone has AA, and the other 50% of the time I get no action anyway. Could be some superusers on the 888poker site who can see when I have AA, read about this other site where that happened and they were able to win everything before they were shut down.

Even if he doesn't donk pot for 3x I'll be stacked here anyway. Because let's face it, we're going to cbet if he checks. Then on a non ace turn we'll be betting again and by then we're pot committed even if he shoves.

I only called it down to prove I was right. If I'd put in a raise, got shoved on, and folded, there would be doubt as to whether villain had AA or not. But I knew he did and 888poker was trapping me again (btw whenever they do this there's never an ace or king on the flop or turn to make me slow down or fold), just had to prove it and it wasn't like he was potting every street so it didn't cost much to see.

The fish was a new player (hence the set and him scooping a full stacked pot in the end, ldo).

We already know you could have put the villain on AA exactly postflop. I'm just surprised a man of your undoubted genius wouldn't have done so preflop and just open folded KK face up.

When do we get to see you take on durrrr and Ivey?

Can't stop laughing






Nice catch

lol, he might have some sense of reality after all.

Yes, it's incredibly difficult to guess what an 11/8(!!) nit might raise UTG, call a 3bet with, then shove on a T73 flop. Definitely something like JJ/QQ 99% of the time. Unlike you I don't enjoy setting my money on fire, so probably never.

oh... I get it! you mean coz he's dead, right?... I get it!

Problem #1. I mean, do you actually believe this? Given the way you respond to criticism, I guess you actually might.

Even the very best players need to work on their game, or they'll soon find themselves losing to those who do.

LOL, awesome.

Problem #2, which has been pointed out before. You don't ever have a plan for a hand, and the fact that you completely missed the point here proves it once again. You're doing whatever you can to justify the call you want to make, and then you make it.

If you were actually serious about your plan being to hit the runner runner flush, you missed a really big part of calculating those fantastic implied odds you were getting - you need 2 cards, so to make your "draw", you need to call bets on 2 streets. Your implied odds should be based on the 1 BB you're calling and an unknown bet you'll be calling on the next street. Pointing to the turn and saying that you had to call because you had a bunch of draws is just another example of you using whatever you can to justify a call. I'm not going to go back now and see if you had odds to call on the turn (but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you didn't), but the point remains that you shouldn't have been in the hand on the turn in the first place, because of course you didn't factor the turn bet into your calculations.

"I put the villain on AK" is another indication of this problem. AK and nothing else? Sounds like another example of you shaping your assumptions to suit the call you want to make. So sure of the hand you put him on that you're ready to completely change it on the river again? The idea is to think logically about what the player is likely to have pre-flop based on betting, and then narrow the range as you go, not to decide on each street exactly what hand it must be.

Problem #3, which you demonstrate again and again, is that you're completely incapable of taking any criticism on board. Any time someone tells you that you've played something incorrectly, you carry on sarcastically about how they're an expert player who has never lost a hand, and then you will argue ad nauseam that your play was the correct one. I can't remember a single time that you responded to someone's criticism by acknowledging that they had a point. Instead, you take it all personally, carry on about why they're playing at the stakes they do if they're such an expert, blah blah blah. Why are you even on these forums?

Seems like it would be pretty effective against you.

He called a PSB on the turn, so given that he was ~20% to win, he definitely wasn't getting odds.

lol pot odds, though.

Just as a matter of interest, if you are a massive favourite, who is second favourite ?

Most people 4bet AA. Unfortunately we don't all have the ability to see through the cards like you.

'I don't need to work on my game' is all about context. If I wanted to win the WSOP, or crush 10000nl, I'd need to work on my game.

But to crush up to like 50nl, nah I don't need to work on my game, I'm already good enough if it weren't for the rig dragging my winrates down.

The plan was to see if I hit 2 spades and fold if I didn't.

On the turn I had to call 5bb in a 5bb pot, so was getting immediate odds of 2:1. But the 110bb villain had left behind easily justified this call, as proven when he shoved river. And even if he hadn't shoved river if he didn't have his FH, he might still bet with his triple aces if he's an idiot and could then be checkraised.

And on the river, as said so many times, I had the nut flush. Not even Phil Ivey would have folded there.

The guy with 88 ldo. But they're both massive underdogs to my QQ, not least because they block each others outs.

Wow, you had 23% equity on the flop, not too shabby!

Co must be a new player, otherwise he would have bet 100bb on the river.

Had a flush draw, implied odds, blah blah.

On the turn I still had a flush draw plus some showdown value if he was bluffing.

On the river I had trips so obviously was never ever folding.

Since you refuse to move up to make better money, and insist on playing a game you think is rigged against you, and feel inclined to mention Phil Ivey often (even while posting 4NL hands), for your next pennies whine beat can you at least show a hand where you do something but call every street and justify/rationalize being a complete station.

All the best.

Actually incorrect. The bloke with 7 8 is 10% favourite, the bloke with 88 is only 9%

The curiosities of poker huh....

he could have had a higher flush draw. but of course that doesn't occur to you

What did you think he was raising with pre flop. Given the ace on the flop its highly probable he has hit at least the ace. He could have had the ace of spades plus another spade giving him top pair and the flush draw, thus meaning you were drawing dead. He could have had a flopped set, so would have hit a full house.

You just don't consider what he could potentially have but still you keep calling all the way.

Your problem is not what you have in your hand, its what you DON'T think your opponent could have, and in this case there are so many hands could beat you on the river. You just fail to see that your opponent could have any of them.


That I believe is half of your problem. You never fold. No matter what, if you hit your hand then you think its got to be a winner. The fact you have something that doesn't even rank in the top 10 hands if you hit doesn't occur to you.

You called and called, and called, and each time you were drawing to a hand that at best was average. Q high flush draw. Two pair, trips at best.. Those are not hands that are going to guarantee you success.

Why don't you just for once consider that you chased and chased a hand that wouldn't have been the nuts even if you hit, and its that chasing that is the problem here.

Flush over flush is just a cooler. If you hit your flush 100bb's deep you're going to win the vast majority of the time.

There's plenty of hands he'd theoretically bet on the river that I'm ahead of with trips. AK, AQ, maybe AJ, JT, T9, T8, or he could be triple barreling a busted FD. But nah, he of course had the full house, like every new player everywhere does when I hold trips.