I don't think it has as strong an effect as you believe. I could be wrong on this, but it seems to me that most people who come across the clown-like rants here and more importantly, on youtube vids are able to pretty quickly work out just how moronic they are. In the end, I believe most people are either going to give online poker a try or they are not--the endless drivel of obvious online losers is not going to have a huge effect.

It is pretty sad though how much of an effort they're willing to put into spreading the (misguided) 'word' whereas they put far, far less effort into improving their game.

Right, first you defend the statement; then you claim it was a level written by your gf.

More likely: you didn't bother to read anything in the pages preceding and had no idea Otatop is not a riggie. Nice try though.

I don't play poker (as per say ) but I do win online . Therefore I am in complete agreement not to discourage folks from depositing and playing. Winning money requires people staying not leaving
So to all riggies out there dont be discouraged by the Bad Beats , keep depositing and plugging away , you will get better ......

you zig. I zag. you say otatop. I say potato...

The riggie effect is essentially zero to the industry, so yes he is overreacting to nothing. All industries have fringe people who will scream about it, and youtube and the internet just allowed people to yell in a bit more public manner, though all their voices get drowned out by the general noise and lack of any real meaningful information (see my long riggie list as an example).

Here are some examples and if you watch they all sound like online poker riggies, except replace poker with other items/products, but the underlying mental conditions are essentially the same.


McDonalds youtube riggie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R6ckoZHREU


Walmart youtube riggie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2rk-QPKc3c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCV3LO1hQvs


Apple youtube riggie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R6ckoZHREU


Bank of America youtube riggie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaLRfaW7BL4


Sesame Street youtube riggie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04E8CREO1qc

Maybe I am, although when I first played online poker and took a few beats I looked around and found a wealth of "information" telling me it was rigged. It alarmed me greatly and I had to find the much less vocal, harder to find articles explaining why it wasn't rigged to alleviate my fears.
Still though, for a while after I started there was always that seed of doubt until I got good enough to realise just how bad I was.
Maybe I'm just weird.

You are not weird for just having an uneasy feeling until you actually think about it objectively. We've all done it. Online poker has a hidden deal that makes it very easy to allow your imagination to do all sorts of things. It's impossible to judge the fairness of the deal by casual observation alone, our minds don't work that way. In fact our brains are wired to find patterns even where none exist. You have to apply some rational thought and analysis and objectivity to see that the deal is normal and exactly the same as live games (although playing style is often different, making the perceived difference worse). Every real analysis ever done by anyone posting on this site or others, has shown it to be normal.

Just to let you know poker is still rigged.

lol you guys still defending it.

The thing is I think you believe that the riggie effect is essentially zero.

That is so lol.

Go nuts defending it's not rigged, but to say there is no effects regarding the stigma of online poker being rigged is lol wrong.

Yes I may be a weak player and not show the aggressivness needed to become a better player and a bigger winner but with very limited income due to accident I have to use very tight bankroll mangement , my major aim is to make the money.

I also stick to the fact that my boom replayer for approx 100 hands over approx 6 mtts shows clearly they are boards to suit and everyone makes a hand .Everytime im knocked out It is with the best hand .LOL just got knocked out of 2.20 turbo qq v 10 j he made 2 pair on the river im outta here again sucked out on by a euro donk .

Never mind one day I will get me a bankroll big enough to take on the better players but first thing some coaching to plug the leaks in my game.

lol @ you who claim it's rigged but never share a database with proof of the rig proving, time and time again, that even you don't believe it's rigged. If you believed what you wrote, we'd have more data that we'd have time to analyze.

Instead, we sit around and poke you with sticks out of boredom.

lol @ you who claim you can spot a rig yet won't take me up on the Spot the Rig challenge and make thousands of dollars for a few minutes of work. Proving, once again, that you don't actually believe what you say.

lol @ you who claim it's rigged but keep playing, demonstrating, time and time again, that you have mental problems.

Fighting riggies is like playing Quake with god mode turned on. Mildly entertaining, gets tired quickly but passes the time when you're on the crapper.

I don't think you do it out of boredom.

sorry, I read your contest and it confuses me somewhat. I must admit it was tl;dr, and I skimmed through it.

So you are saying that you can manipulate the deal and no one would be able to pick what has been manipulated?

Isn't this arguing that Mr Internet Poker Site could change results and we wouldn't be able to tell?

Which side are you arguing for?

It is zero. Riggies have relatively no money and are a fringe part of the industry. Other industries have equivalent people. Poker rooms (aside from the failed Real Deal Poker) basically laugh at the crazy emails and that is it. Riggies genuinely do not matter and most are not even worth having as customers.

The only people who make money off riggies are those who pitch what they want to hear, whether it be youtube videos (where clicks earn advertisements) or systems which appeal to the paranoid crowd that obviously do not work (riggies are the type that do buy all sorts of stupid stuff with their minimal funds). Some affiliates go with a riggie angle to get signups to rooms as well like pokerisrigged.



Not sure why you think I am defending anything. This industry is not much different from any other one, it has its good points and bad. Do riggies hate capitalism or something? Life is not as simple as your kind believes, and the world is not conspiring to get your pocket change even if you want to believe that.

Fringe people like you have very little impact in the industry. Government regulation has impact. Moneymaker had impact. Riggies have none.

All the best.

facepalm.jpg

What I am saying is that if everyone believed that only poker was 100% 'rig-proof' there would be more online players and people willing to spend more. Do you believe that not to be the case?


I'm not suggesting that the 'rigged online poker' has impact equivalent to Government Regulations.

Ok, let's get 1,000 random people who play poker and know about online poker. How many of those people say "I don't play online poker because I think it is rigged".

Do you think that number is 0?

Now get 1,000 people that know of and use MacDonalds. I suggest that not one of them says that Maccas is an evil corporation designed to get the personal information of children aged under 13.

Your comparisons are quite poor and your thoughts that the perception of 'rigged poker' has zero effect on the industry is nothing short of laughable.

Yet again you post ITT complaining about bad beats, rather than posting hands in the strat forums. You don't even bother to read strat threads - you seem to log on to post ITT and then instantly log off again. WTG.

Also, improving ones play has nothing to do with BRM.

You saw my list of riggies and that was just using a quick search mechanism. There is no chance some people will ever believe it is not rigged, because they need to believe it is rigged.

I get what you are asking, but money spent trying to convert all the riggies is always better spent in other endeavors in marketing and product creation (which will yield a much better return), and that seems to be an aspect of business riggies seem to miss, along with their belief that companies would risk everything to make an extra $3.



Riggies have basically no impact. Again, look at the one room that was created by riggies for riggies (Real Deal Poker) and you see a place that failed quickly because riggies had no money to deposit, and within a week they believed it was rigged anyway.




You are making another very common business mistake in assuming that every human is equal in terms of value. If you ask 1,000 blind 85+ year olds their beliefs would it really matter ho many of them (from an industry perspective) believe it is rigged or not.

Less extreme, if you ask American live players who barely play online I would assume the number who believe it is rigged is much higher, but again they are not the market that companies like Pokerstars is trying to attract.



Really? A guy even made a movie called Super Size Me. You seriously believe this? McDonalds has as many equivalent riggies as online poker, probably more.

To be blunt, your kind are huge business donks, so I never really expect you guys to get what I say, but players worried about rigging is a complete non issue in the industry. Issues that do matter include:

Game security
Fraud and collusion
Money laundering
Government regulations
Software improvements and developments
Effective marketing (differs for the different rooms)
Affiliate structures (for those who use that)


Rigging is never a topic in serious discussions, and you can see how that manifests on this huge forum where it is contained in a couple of threads while dozens of forums and thousands of posts daily have rigging as a non issue.

You are free to believe otherwise, and riggies are all about belief, but if you research it at all and talk to people in the industry at every level you will see what I am saying is completely accurate.

All the best.

Yeehaw, blatantly******ed is back!

And the most funny thing is: He has been predicting the drop in player numbers for several years now.

Waaaaaaiiiit for it

I'm not saying anything about that Pokersite should invest money in trying to convince these people. Though it's nice of you to bring up something that is completely irrelevant to what we are talking about.

Just to remind you, we are talking about the following.

You said that riggies have zero (I'll repeat it for you ZERO) effect on the online poker scene. I said you are clearly wrong. I stand by my statement.



Not sure what my mistake is. What you say above is a fact. I don't think I ever said otherwise. Though it's nice of you to bring up something that is completely irrelevant to what we are talking about.

Just to remind you, we are talking about the following.

You said that riggies have zero (I'll repeat it for you ZERO) effect on the online poker scene. I said you are clearly wrong. I stand by my statement.

I haven't watched supersize me. Is there something in there about getting personal information for children under the age of 13? Probably not (though I could be wrong). Though it's nice of you to bring up something that is completely irrelevant to what we are talking about.

I assume that you are referring to the fact the movie was about eating Maccas makes you fat. Are you saying that if you ate only Maccas you wouldn't get fat? Pretty poor if what you are saying is that online poker is rigged like Maccas will get you fat.

I don't think you know me that well. You are saying I'm a business donk? I have successfully run businesses (well a business within a business) turning over $10M per year with hundreds of employees. While I'm happy to say that I'm probably not a business guru, I'm also comfortable to say I'm not a business donk.

Please tell me that if there was no perception of 'rigged Online Poker' by anyone in the world that Poker Sites would not gain 1 more player and / or generate 1 more cent.

Do you really think anyone believes even a tiny amount the bullcrap you and quax and other site shills spew on a daily basis. I can only hope you are well paid ....................

Thats it in a Nutshell ......

Nothing's more addictive and makes me want to deposit more than getting bad beat.

I have said many times I have zero expectation that a single riggie will ever understand or believe anything I say, but other than weekend visits here for fun this thread has no meaning to me, and in the business I do riggies have nothing to do with anything (other than turning down stakes on riggies who apply).

I always assume guys like you will remain paranoid for life, and indeed the shadowy overlords pay me well.



Just to remind you, we are talking about the following.

You said that riggies have zero (I'll repeat it for you ZERO) effect on the online poker scene. I said you are clearly wrong. I stand by my statement.[/QUOTE]

To be more clear - riggies do not matter at all to the poker sites or the industry. Do riggies contribute a few bucks? Sure, but other than these threads and youtube videos, riggies are a complete non-issue in the industry.

No companies spend a single penny (other than salary for customer service who deal with them as part of their job) worrying about riggies at all. They do not market to them, they do not try to convince them of anything. Other than polite email replies they do not even think about riggies at all.

Riggies do not matter to the industry, it really is that simple.


Your 13 year old point makes no sense to be honest. Online poker rooms have no interest in 13 year olds because they cannot be customers, so I am not sure what your point is. All sorts of companies obtain information on customers and potential customers, look at Facebook for instance.

Companies like McDonalds and Facebook have far more equivalent riggies than all online poker rooms combined, which makes sense because they are bigger companies and a decent size of the population is paranoid.



You can play some fictional 5K NL with that guy who plays 4 NL then. You are a business donk.


That is not how business works. Businesses have to spend money to attract customers, and you are asking that if some magical button is pushed that spews another customer (for no effort) is that good or bad. The answer is not always good (some customers cost more than they make, and riggies tend to be more like that depositing and cashing out small amounts over and over due to paranoia).

If you are telling me that all the paranoid people out there woke up without their paranoia would they be potentially good customers - sure, many would be, but that is not how life works - things like that do not magically happen out of thin air.

No online poker company will spend money trying hard to make riggies feel better, aside from Real Deal Poker which failed miserably because of that very strategic plan.

Hourly break is almost done (and due to being able to type fast this took 3-4 whole minutes). See you in an hour or so!


All the best.

You are incredible at just changing what the actual conversation is about. I also like how you skip stuff that makes you look like an idiot, but talk about stuff that is rather stupid. Here you go...

?? Your you-tube video for Maccas was about taking the information of 13 year olds. Good to see you don't think what you write is relevant.

Yep, very well explained. Makes perfect sense. Very good argument. Oh, that must be my business donk coming out of me.


So I make a comment "Please tell me that if there was no perception of 'rigged Online Poker' by anyone in the world that Poker Sites would not gain 1 more player and / or generate 1 more cent." and then you start telling me how a business works.

Didn't my last post say that I never said anything about that it was a good idea for a pokersite to spend money on convincing riggie. Good idea that you wrote several paragraphs convincing me of something I agree with you on.

Would you like me to insert something about how icecream is made. It's about as relevant.

Yep, I make a statement because you said that the 'riggie effect' was zero and I said this was wrong. You then you give me a full explanation on something that I am not arguing.

Yep, good work champ.

I would like you to confirm that the statement you made that the 'riggie effect' is zero is a lie. You can't say that not 1 person has not played on a poker site and / or $1 not spent because of the 'riggie effect'

Riggies change stuff all he time, frankly it is tricky keeping track of all of you. I just speed post during tourney breaks, so as much as you want to think something sinister is at work, reality is I just answer best I can in a way that amuses me at paranoid people's expense.

Your last post was pretty repetitive, and you seem really obsessed about whether riggies contribute a technically non-zero amount - so I will say it is possible that some contribute a non zero amount (though many riggies are net costs to sites), but my point is that riggies do not matter to any of the online poker companies.

If you want to ask 20 different ways what if a riggie generates $1, my answer will be who cares $1 does not matter and riggies do not matter. If latching onto that as $1 is non-zero is a win for you, then congrats on that achievement I suppose, but riggies still do not matter at all to the industry.



You think I watched any of that crazy? I just went to youtube and searched "xxx is evil" for a few companies and each had a ton of options to choose from. I picked ones that seemed to have crazy looking people because I assumed riggies could better relate to them, that's all. I assumed the Seasame Street one was a comedy bit as well.



Your business donkdom manifests in many ways, and good for you trying to identify some of the ways to learn for the future.




When I say riggies do not matter in the industry it is in the context of the sites being run as businesses. Generating one more fictional cent from thin air does not matter.

You then agree with me that riggies do not matter to any of the sites in a business sense. That is my point the whole time.

You can if that makes you feel better. You can be the ice cream riggie!


Riggies and the issue of software being rigged does not matter to any of the sites in the industry. It is a relative non issue, regardless of how much you obsess about $1.

Break nearly done, hope this 3 minute speed post cheered you up! Good luck with that ice cream theory of yours. Perhaps you can scoop the competition...

All the best.

I thought I would shorten your reply.

I just want you to admit you lied. Don't say that they don't matter or whatever and that it isn't worth investing their time. I don't disagree with you there. Though every time I say that you keep mentioning it?

If I go and buy one bottle of Coke, do I change Coke's bottom line (i.e. have an effect), yes, does it really matter and is it worth Coke advertising to me in particular, no.

I'm not arguing that over all that ****. I'm just saying you lied that there is no net effect of riggies. You can not say that is not true.

It should be noted that if you can't admit the above then I think you have a problem and may be the one that is paranoid.