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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,508 34.88%
No
5,615 55.84%
Undecided
933 9.28%

02-17-2012 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
I never go out early or early mid or mid, MTT> I always build big stack over 50 bb actually using the small ball small pot poker using TAG style.

Ive been playing poker for 25 years who the hell do you think you are telling me how I play LOL At this, I always have big stacks in MTTs to lose to unreal suckouts getting my money in the best everytime, But you know what

I am getting a fair deal, just the unluckest playing in the world when playing Online, and I guess I am the luckest player in the world when I play live.

LOL dude at your assumptions, I thought people like you did not assume anything. Well you assume the RNG is not rigged but you have no proof.

But I assure you that Pokerstars deal is set, and setup before it is dealt out.

Thank you
Tell you what, PM me and we can arrange for you to send in a few MTT hand histories and I will have one my coaches analyze them at no charge, and while I will not post your screen name without permission, I would post the feedback you will receive.

While you may believe you are the unluckiest person on the planet, the more likely scenario is you are simply not anywhere near as good as you think, and no doubt your game is horribly outdated at this point, just like your 1990s style video tape technology.

If you want to believe it is just bad luck then you are just one of many geezers who sit and whine all day wondering why these new kids always seem to win.

Even your posting history shows just how overly emotional you are both when winning and losing. When you had your major $100 score all of a sudden the world was perfect, but no doubt you have lost since then and your emotional reaction is back to the whine approach.

You clearly have zero poker plan and you play in the moment and react in the moment to everything. That is a much harder thing to train someone to correct, especially an old fart who is very set in his ways, but in the end that choice is up to you.

If you want to believe you are the unluckiest man on the planet that is victim to Stars mind control based double random rig then go for it.

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop
The main sites those hands were from were Stars and FTP. I find it hard to believe you've never played there.Something you guys prove every time you post, yes.You can assure me of it all you want, you haven't shown me evidence of it. Hey, your math skills are exactly like the rig!Hitler believed he was doing the right thing.I bet you do get your money in good and lose races as a favorite. I also bet that most of your losses don't come from losing races. It's what you focus on because it sticks most in your head, but you probably have other leaks that lead to you bleeding off way more money other places.Why would you be in shock over something that at worst happens 1 in 20 times, but more realistically happens 30-40% of the time? I thought you assured me you had an "above average" understanding of numbers.I imagine exactly as often as it should, but of course I can't see your hands so I have no idea.It sounds like you have a problem with the game of poker itself, not just the online version.

You're now literally complaining about the fact that you don't win every race. Really?If your beef is the FREQUENCY, then the frequency would be your evidence, you dope. If something happens too often, it's pretty ****ing simple to tell.Did the FREQUENCY of events change in August, or is that when you just "realized" what was going on?
That's pretty easy, just
whatever sites you play at and tell them to close your account. Done and done. Surprising I had to tell a math wiz like yourself something so obvious and simple.
same ole snide commenting Otatop
Your transparency while hiding behind your curtain of legitimacy is the only thing here that runs as expected.

you offer zero proof
and as usual put yourself on that pedestal like most of your shillarious buddies do, and you continually show your ignorance , keep making an azz out of yourself with your riduclous snide comments while offering nothing as far as proof

keep on keep on so will I

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Online...des&id=4949757
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 10:47 AM
So you people on here that do not think online poker is rigged are going by the fact that PokerStars says its not , so its not rigged correct?

You go by the Terms and Conditions and the Legal verbatim that PokerStars had throw at us??

Are you all the same ones who Believed in FTP's Terms and Conditions and Money was safe and stuff??

LOL

That should all open your eyes to the fact that nothing written is true, FTP even broke their own Terms and Conditions, what makes you think PokerStars would not do the same.

If you owned PokerStars and you could do something that might triple the amount of money your make now but it is shady, would you do it?

Obvs you would because your a poker player.

thank you
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
PokerStars deals the cards in a fair and honest manner. Once the deck is shuffled, it is set, and the order in which the cards are dealt cannot be changed.
"Set" just means they don't touch it. They were pointing out that unlike sites that use a continuous shuffle, they shuffle once then deal from that deck.
Quote:
Furthermore, we apply conservative rules to enforce the required degree of randomness; for instance, if user input does not generate required amount of entropy, we do not start the next hand until we obtain the required amount of entropy from the Quantis RNG.
Oh how terrible. If they don't have a sufficiently random seed from their users, they rely on their hardware RNG.
Quote:
To perform an actual shuffle, we use another simple and reliable algorithm: ◦first we draw a random card from the original deck (1 of 52) and place it in a new deck - now original deck contains 51 cards and the new deck contains 1 card
◦then we draw another random card from the original deck (1 of 51) and place it on top of the new deck - now original deck contains 50 cards and the new deck contains 2 cards
◦we repeat the process until all cards have moved from the original deck to the new deck
This is how Shuffle Masters work, too. ZOMG!
Quote:
And you guys saying it takes a long time for software to do this for millions of hands. LOL Listen if they could do all that , they could do even more than we would think
"If they could do all that"? They just shuffle and deal cards, it's in no way complicated, unlike an invisible rig.
Quote:
, and if they did do you think you would ever hear about it, just like US Senators that can make money off insider trading, only they can never get caught cuz the 3 or 4 people in the room would never say anything because they are making so much money.
US Senators can make money off inside trading because it's not illegal for them, not because people cover it up.

Good example, though.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejfi
same ole snide commenting Otatop
Your transparency while hiding behind your curtain of legitimacy is the only thing here that runs as expected.
Huh? Try to just type normal sentences.
Quote:
you offer zero proof
How can I disprove things that are based on "facts" that you pull out of your ass?
Quote:
and as usual put yourself on that pedestal like most of your shillarious buddies do, and you continually show your ignorance , keep making an azz out of yourself with your riduclous snide comments while offering nothing as far as proof
As I told baltantly******ed when he called me ignorant, if you dip****s consider me ignorant I'm happy to stay that way. ezinearticles.com won a Pulitzer last year, didn't they?

Why don't you just link me to Hoooligan's blog?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Tell you what, PM me and we can arrange for you to send in a few MTT hand histories and I will have one my coaches analyze them at no charge, and while I will not post your screen name without permission, I would post the feedback you will receive.

While you may believe you are the unluckiest person on the planet, the more likely scenario is you are simply not anywhere near as good as you think, and no doubt your game is horribly outdated at this point, just like your 1990s style video tape technology.

If you want to believe it is just bad luck then you are just one of many geezers who sit and whine all day wondering why these new kids always seem to win.

Even your posting history shows just how overly emotional you are both when winning and losing. When you had your major $100 score all of a sudden the world was perfect, but no doubt you have lost since then and your emotional reaction is back to the whine approach.

You clearly have zero poker plan and you play in the moment and react in the moment to everything. That is a much harder thing to train someone to correct, especially an old fart who is very set in his ways, but in the end that choice is up to you.

If you want to believe you are the unluckiest man on the planet that is victim to Stars mind control based double random rig then go for it.

All the best.

Actually its 239.34 now my roll, and a pile of points, Also I only play MTT, I do not need anyone telling me how to play and what is correct odds etc etc etc, Most of these dummies calling are not "IN IT TO WIN IT" I am but can never because of the unreal suckout that happens to me all the time, Well I guess its variance since 2005 I have had 3 or 4 winning days, Ok sure.

I have build my roll up from points (being busted) in the past and I did it again. 3 days ago I had 1 dollar and couple of hundred points and now I have 239.34 and I play only MTT, and I am bad player, Sure man.\

Where do you live? Because I should come to your house and you would see what I am talking about, and you could and would give your advice and how I should play but it would not change because PokerStars Sets the Deck and I cannot do anything about this.

And yes let me compile a lot of info for you and I will take you up on your offer because I want to get better both, as I always want to get better live and online, but I do not think it is rigged again I do not but setup is another story all together.

But I mean when I got 25 BB vs someones 35 BB in MTT and they call my all in Pre when I hold AA and call with 63 off to suckout your really really really got to be suspect. anyways talk to you soon

Ill send you the stuff the weekend via PM and I am going to start to record again so you can see the pattern of what I am talking about.

pffff young kids these days. (this is who you want me to blame for my bad results dummies????)

thank you for your time.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejfi
Even better than just being from some random site, it's also an article designed to get people to buy an "Online Poker Code Cracker" that lets them win 83% of the time or some garbage.

Excellent sleuthing.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:02 AM
IF ONLINE POKER IS NOT RIGGED OR NOT SETUP, WHY IS THREAD NOT LOCKED AND BAN?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
So you people on here that do not think online poker is rigged are going by the fact that PokerStars says its not , so its not rigged correct?

You go by the Terms and Conditions and the Legal verbatim that PokerStars had throw at us??

Are you all the same ones who Believed in FTP's Terms and Conditions and Money was safe and stuff??

LOL

That should all open your eyes to the fact that nothing written is true, FTP even broke their own Terms and Conditions, what makes you think PokerStars would not do the same.

If you owned PokerStars and you could do something that might triple the amount of money your make now but it is shady, would you do it?

Obvs you would because your a poker player.

thank you
the shills would love to have us believe that FTP and stars were thieves running a ponzi scheme but they would never cheat the rng.
NOW THATS FUNNY

its assinine that they would even bother debating this point OF THE RIGGED RNG
as if its sacred and untouchable,uncompromised . lol

yet they do ALL DAY LONG LOL

What interest do these regular shills really have while ignoring the obvious proof of ponzi schemes, super users, collusion, funds confiscation ,KGC,Joe Norton,the list goes on

yet act like the rng is this sacred cow that isn't compromised

I think you and I both know the answer to that one

minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day, month after month and so on

5k-10k posts hmmmmm....
You guys are not doing your job very well shills
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
Actually its 239.34 now my roll, and a pile of points, Also I only play MTT, I do not need anyone telling me how to play and what is correct odds etc etc etc, Most of these dummies calling are not "IN IT TO WIN IT" I am but can never because of the unreal suckout that happens to me all the time, Well I guess its variance since 2005 I have had 3 or 4 winning days, Ok sure.
You could not sound any more like an outdated geezer if you tried.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
I have build my roll up from points (being busted) in the past and I did it again. 3 days ago I had 1 dollar and couple of hundred points and now I have 239.34 and I play only MTT, and I am bad player, Sure man.\
You certainly are not a good player. You might be marginal. You got lucky in a single MTT, and old outdated geezers like you will always point to the sample size of 1 good tournament as the indication of skill while the hundreds of losing ones are due to being the target of a sinister rig.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
Where do you live? Because I should come to your house and you would see what I am talking about, and you could and would give your advice and how I should play but it would not change because PokerStars Sets the Deck and I cannot do anything about this.
No offense - but meeting an outdated geezer is not as interesting as you might expect. Also given the volume I play (compared to your volume) I can assure you I see all of what you whine about and more pretty much every day as part of the natural grind. That's why I can easily find hands that match your and other riggies whines that do not work as your rig would predict.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
And yes let me compile a lot of info for you and I will take you up on your offer because I want to get better both, as I always want to get better live and online, but I do not think it is rigged again I do not but setup is another story all together.

But I mean when I got 25 BB vs someones 35 BB in MTT and they all my all in Pre when I hold AA and call with 63 off to suckout your really really really got to be suspect. anyways talk to you soon

Ill send you the stuff the weekend via PM and I am going to start to record again so you can see the pattern of what I am talking about.

Here is the beauty with technology of the 21st century - you do not need to compile a log about anything.

I will assume you were too slow to have Pokerstars save your HHs on your hard drive, but even if that is the case if you PM me with your user name what I will do is look over your recent tournament history and ask for 3 HHs from specific tournaments.

Here is where Magic happens - you can actually request these from Pokerstars and you will receive the entire HH log.

See how easy that would be - no need to video tape anything or bust out your analog phone.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
pffff young kids these days. (this is who you want me to blame for my bad results dummies????)

thank you for your time.
PM me if and when you want to take up this offer, though nothing can be done about your geezeroutlook.

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
IF ONLINE POKER IS NOT RIGGED OR NOT SETUP, WHY IS THREAD NOT LOCKED AND BAN?
To stop the people who think that it is spamming the board with the same boring thing over and over and the mods having to lock it.

Ad ignorantiam arguments FTW.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
IF ONLINE POKER IS NOT RIGGED OR NOT SETUP, WHY IS THREAD NOT LOCKED AND BAN?
Hello Nicholas,

Thank you for contacting PokerStars.

Weak players will make bad decisions which sometimes pay off for them. While it is definitely frustrating, keep in mind the occasional good result keeps them coming back to play, and if they keep making bad decisions, you want to be the player calling them with a better hand.
**** Actually they are weak and they do make bad decisions and I am not the one calling them they are the ones calling me with garbage holdings and getting lucky 80-90% of the time.. BTW Stars calling is weak play in mtt IMO. ABR = Always be Raising.


Please remember the PokerStars software produces a shuffle that is completely random, which favours no player over any other, whether they be weak or strong.*** sure it does not you just said its good for the bad player to get the occasional good result, good for you maybe but not me as I consistently lose to suckout vs this player** Using a random number generator designed by ID Quantique, it ensures complete randomisation of the shuffle, and complete unpredictability of the cards to come. We have also commissioned independent audits on our software, and the largest consulting firm specializing in software security and quality, Cigital Inc., judged it to be fair, random and unpredictable. For all the details about the integrity of the PokerStars shuffle, please visit our website:

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/

This means that while weak players might sometimes be rewarded for bad decisions, with a fair shuffle, the balance of hands they play will result in them being losing players overall.

Please let us know if you have any other questions and thanks for playing at PokerStars.

Regards,

Federico
PokerStars Support Team
---
We are poker!


Anyways this debate will never end im gonna do the record thing again. Im playing MTT and getting it in good everytime, like I said only about 10% of the time do I ever get it in behind via cooler, and then I hardly ever ever suckout unfort for me.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:19 AM
Nicky - if you are getting your money in good every time in MTTs then you're probably doing something wrong.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop
Even better than just being from some random site, it's also an article designed to get people to buy an "Online Poker Code Cracker" that lets them win 83% of the time or some garbage.

Excellent sleuthing.
as if your reveailing link proved anything at all Sherlock

http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/a...et-caught.html

That pedestal of yours keeps getting higher soon you wont be able to get off

stay blind and ignorant I like you that way
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
You could not sound any more like an outdated geezer if you tried.





You certainly are not a good player. You might be marginal. You got lucky in a single MTT, and old outdated geezers like you will always point to the sample size of 1 good tournament as the indication of skill while the hundreds of losing ones are due to being the target of a sinister rig.





No offense - but meeting an outdated geezer is not as interesting as you might expect. Also given the volume I play (compared to your volume) I can assure you I see all of what you whine about and more pretty much every day as part of the natural grind. That's why I can easily find hands that match your and other riggies whines that do not work as your rig would predict.






Here is the beauty with technology of the 21st century - you do not need to compile a log about anything.

I will assume you were too slow to have Pokerstars save your HHs on your hard drive, but even if that is the case if you PM me with your user name what I will do is look over your recent tournament history and ask for 3 HHs from specific tournaments.

Here is where Magic happens - you can actually request these from Pokerstars and you will receive the entire HH log.

See how easy that would be - no need to video tape anything or bust out your analog phone.





PM me if and when you want to take up this offer, though nothing can be done about your geezeroutlook.

All the best.
So Doyle is outdated geezer. LOL dude. I am 38, I have read almost every pokerbook. I have played a **** ton of hands and Mega MTT's I have a lot of good scores actually and wins for your infomation.

The tnrys I do lose in( a lot ) are always Via the suckout and I usually always have a big stack, and get called off by some dummy with marg holdings calling me for 3/4 of their stack only to suckout on the turn or river with perfect cards. This is why I am going back to recording, because this will show I am not a bad player as you say.

Actually make over 4k live last year and break even on Stars. So I am a bad old geezers , fine rather be that , than a degen reetard that calls off for whole stack in mtt vs a TAG style these guys dont even watch the play or take notes , obvs they dont or they would not call me.

Why are they calling me? hmmm because they know the deck is setup to give them a chance, Oh btw its usally always Spain or Netherlands that are calling me, probby got nothing to do with it I dont know

Anyways Im done now going to play.

Peace out
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopie1
Nicky - if you are getting your money in good every time in MTTs then you're probably doing something wrong.
how?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
So Doyle is outdated geezer. LOL dude. I am 38, I have read almost every pokerbook. I have played a **** ton of hands and Mega MTT's I have a lot of good scores actually and wins for your infomation.

The tnrys I do lose in( a lot ) are always Via the suckout and I usually always have a big stack, and get called off by some dummy with marg holdings calling me for 3/4 of their stack only to suckout on the turn or river with perfect cards. This is why I am going back to recording, because this will show I am not a bad player as you say.

Actually make over 4k live last year and break even on Stars. So I am a bad old geezers , fine rather be that , than a degen reetard that calls off for whole stack in mtt vs a TAG style these guys dont even watch the play or take notes , obvs they dont or they would not call me.

Why are they calling me? hmmm because they know the deck is setup to give them a chance, Oh btw its usally always Spain or Netherlands that are calling me, probby got nothing to do with it I dont know

Anyways Im done now going to play.

Peace out

BTW :" Whats your ITM% in MTT?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:33 AM
If these OLP sites were legit, can anyone of you shills rationalize why they would not let an independent outside source audit their rng?

Why not prove without a doubt that this rng( the only thing that hasn't been exposed in the online poker scam) is truly random,

The reason , because it isn't random

these guys have been shown to be thieves, liars and cheats

yet these shills would have us believe that we should ignore that evidence and believe that a computer program would never be compromised

no matter how you ridicule, demean and disrespect you will never be able to over come that argument.EVER

though your continuous efforts to do so demonstrate either complete stupidity, or complicity in the scam

that much is plainly certain
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
how?
Because if you aren't shoving some substandard hands from the button, small blind or whatever when you are low on chips and getting looked up by big pairs or AK sometimes then you are passing up +EV situations.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:37 AM
Also Monteroy there is no need insulting me over and over and over again. I have all my HH saved on my Hard Drive. I am not one of those dummies that call me in MTT for 3/4 of stack with margianal holdings. So please give it up calling me dumb and old.

Thank you if not I'll start calling you some names ok goof?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopie1
Because if you aren't shoving some substandard hands from the button, small blind or whatever when you are low on chips and getting looked up by big pairs or AK sometimes then you are passing up +EV situations.
IM NOT Short Stacked in these situations these situations are deep in the MTT either just b4 ITM or ITM already.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejfi
i never said they must have committed nefarious act b becuase they were found to have committed nefarious act A

I said how can you not believe act B is possible since they have been exposed as complicit in act A
I believe it is possible that any site could rig the deal. In fact it would be relatively easy.

Quote:
but i believe it is not only possible but more than likely probable considering they have been exposed as cheaters already
I might agree that someone committing one nefarious act makes it marginally more probable that they have committed some other nefarious act. But how do you get to more than likely probable? Can't you use that to justify any imaginable scheme?



Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
Also I have read it pokerstars does randomize and shuffle the deck twice, I also have this in email from them
Most likely you have misunderstood the emails. Why not post them?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopie1
Because if you aren't shoving some substandard hands from the button, small blind or whatever when you are low on chips and getting looked up by big pairs or AK sometimes then you are passing up +EV situations.
This is how I get my big stacks
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
Weak players will make bad decisions which sometimes pay off for them. While it is definitely frustrating, keep in mind the occasional good result keeps them coming back to play, and if they keep making bad decisions, you want to be the player calling them with a better hand.
**** Actually they are weak and they do make bad decisions and I am not the one calling them they are the ones calling me with garbage holdings and getting lucky 80-90% of the time.. BTW Stars calling is weak play in mtt IMO. ABR = Always be Raising.
If they were "getting lucky" 80-90% of the time, you'd have proof of rigging. It's safe to say they're not.

It's also laughable that someone explaining how poker works is interpreted as admission of rigging by you. Jesus you're dumb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejfi
as if your reveailing link proved anything at all Sherlock
I thought someone as great at math as you would appreciate it. Oh look, random ramblings of a nobody, with no evidence of any kind. Great link!
Quote:
stay blind and ignorant I like you that way
I'll stay ignorant as long as your mom stays as sexy as I like her.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
02-17-2012 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybro27
BTW :" Whats your ITM% in MTT?
nicky, would you make up your mind? It might be rigged. Oh, it definitely isn't. It is rigged. You are recording. You are not recording. You are recording. You are posting. You are done posting. You are back. I thought you were legit at first, but I am now starting to think you are someone's gimmick to mimic and mock TPTK. Anyway, it is somewhat entertaining in any case. Gold, baby!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
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