I had a PM from him, and I sent him two back. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the next short window of time. It is 1:30am in the Isle of Man right now [As if anyone's there...]

It's very possible that FTP simply didn't put the pieces together. Individual customer service reps ignored it, etc.

Even I was willing to write this off to a bigger, larger problem that FTP was just a part of -- a shark-sky-coincidence if you will -- but seeing the post by slsmagicc today, confirming matching withdraws and a poker-only bank account, I'm "all-in" as it were:

FTP trusted the wrong business partner.

My only question now is -- now that FTP is looking into it, and now that there's pretty heavy evidence that they used a bad processor and that processor "went rogue" on them -- what are they going to do about it.

...and, if I didn't have $600 at stake myself, I would have wrote this off a long time ago. Heck, I almost wrote off the first $400. They could have gotten away with it if they hadn't come back to me for $200 more -- bastards.

This isn't the first time this has happened, so for FTP to take zero blame is sad and pathetic.

I hope everyone boycotts and steals from them.

I got 25 to 1 and I have 4 years left

gl collecting.

From the 800notes page the Customer ID at Fifth 3rd bank is: Customer ID: 1800361628

Maybe bombard the bank they they might have a rogue customer:

https://www.53.com/contact/forms/con...d=CustomerCare

The FDIC may want to know if a member bank is hosting a client who's running a scam:

http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/financ.../fil11018.html

the fed reserve regulates banks.

and they have an online complaint filing system
https://www.federalreserveconsumerhe...fm?source=jump

gogogogogogo

I doubt this falls off the first page soon, but it may indeed be sticky worthy.

Cash in ftp account next to zero now.

If fifth third bank is the bank that has PMI's accounts, they are definitely aware of all these unauthorized transactions from PMI. If lots of people go to their banks and claim fraud, PMI's bank has to "investigate" each return made as never authorized. This has to certainly raise flags. For all the debits that PMI originates, if 1% or more get returned to them as unauthorized, they will be flagged officially by the association running ACH's (NACHA) and will need to explain themselves.

This does NOT need to be off the 1st page... we need it stickied until FT addresses this properly.

I'm totally ignorant in how online accounts work. Anyway care to explain how a company could actually take the money? If I'm understanding correctly, if I buy something over the internet with a debit Mastercard that's attached to my bank account, people can than withdraw money without me knowing months after wards?

EDIT: Oh FT service is clearly pathetic. I believe everyone within reason should stop playing immediately and withdraw all funds. If enough of us do that they'll eventually crack and pull their act together and offer huge bonuses to people rejoining. Find a mod to make a banner for all 2+2 to see what they have done and this course of action?

I also have no real clue, but from what I understand, this is only happening from eCheck deposits?

+1 sticky. I'm glad this is finally getting some major attention.

Basically anytime you give your account information by purchasing something online, you run the risk of them ripping you off.

That's why you're only supposed to purchase from main retailers online.

Heck, if you give someone a check IRL you're providing them with your bank account and routing number. Fraud is serious business though, and you can get into a lot of trouble if you mess around with other people's accounts. Also when you give someone a check, they can "wash" it (remove the ink) and then write in what they want to remove from your account.

All a company needs is your bank acct number and routing number. Once they have a bank that will process these transactions on their behalf, they can process debits to any account anywhere basically. It becomes a risk management issue on the bank's behalf because when the company (PMI) is processing these, their bank is warranting that every transaction is legit.

Usually when you give credit card information to a company, i.e. amazon, for goods or services, Amazon goes into your bank account and debits the agreed upon amount.

All thats required to do this is your banking info, name, numbers etc. ( i actually dont know which info is needed, but PMI certainly has it)

What this company is basically doing is skipping that whole "agreed upon" amount. they have all the information they need and thus, like amazon would debit your account.Only instead of getting the dunkaroos i ordered i am just getting a slimmer wallet.

holy alpaca, damn, ok. And I'd have to take these guys to court if I want my $$ back? Right, as tempting as the soft poker sites are I'm thinking I really should just stick with PokerStars, oh and destroy my current bank account and create another 2, one with limited funds attached to a Mastercard and another with only a bankcard.

Am I being paranoid? Particularly with the only grind PokerStars thing

Just to say to the OP, being one of the "original 28" you listed on the first page, that I am NOT a shill (dang, been reading the forum for a few years, finally take the plunge, and already in a doozy of a thread!). the_haddix on tilt fwiw...

besides of the obv reasons stated in the many pages of this thread, i'm bummed b/c w/ my work schedule, i'm not able to play as much as i would like to, and rush mtt's really are an efficient way for me to get in max playing time after work. well...my money's out of there now.

anyway, wish everyone the best and hope this doesn't end up leaving us in US w/ fewer deposit/wd methods moving forward if the banks get even more strict on what they "accept" through 3rd party processors in general. Here's to the whole online poker landscape changing significantly very soon, hopefully for the bettor (sorry, couldn't resist)

I had no intention of suggesting anyone in particular was complicit in PMI's activities, but there were a few "nothing to see here, everything is fine!" posts in the first thread that seemed... ...odd to me.

Bump to keep on the first page...we need a sticky for this

What we need is not the people of the internet forum to be aware of the issue, but all of 2+2 and ideally, all poker forums. I'm going to ask a mod what can be done

I'm interested in seeing if FTP ever takes responsibility for this issue. It's funny how a processor has apparently gone rogue and took money out of my checking, yet FTP still hasn't gotten there money from me from 5+ months ago. Now that I've closed my checking account, (thanks PMI!) I'll have to find a way to get FTP their money, if they ever come for it...

PM'd this to a mod:

I wasn't sure who was the correct person to contact about this so sorry if you are the wrong person. I'm not sure if you've heard of the controversies that's been going on at FTP; if not, here's a thread explaining:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...s-now-1011278/

imo, this is a absolute outrage to online poker and a example must be set so that future online poker companies aren't so lazy with their security/customer service. I propose to tell everyone on FTP to withdraw all funds immediately from the site. If 2+2 creates a big deal over this and conveys the illusion to the users that people are making a stand and withdrawing, the illusion will become a reality. If 2+2 follows suit, we'd be able to infuence other poker forums to do the same, consequently reducing FTP profit enormously.

Some regs might not leave though because of wanting to have all the fish to them, which could cause regs to return. At the very least, all of 2+2 should be warned of this scandal. I've seen a few banners being displayed, that ought to get people's attention



And received this reply:

Although you will be totally wasting your time, please post your call within that existing thread. There is no point in diluting or repeating the information.

Thank you.




oh well, I tried. Let's hope FTP is kind enough to reply soon

So I've started getting emails about 7-10 days ago like the one below. I make a lot of smaller deposits to play MTT here and there. I got a little suspicious of FTP and now play at PS, but now I'm getting these debits from 6 months ago. They are coming directly from FTP (as far as I can tell), but they are for transactions from late last year. Why are these just now posting to my account? Could this be related to the fraud discussed in this thread?

-------------------------------

Your 'Quick Deposit' transaction outlined below was successfully added to your Full Tilt Poker account.

However due to third party processor issues there has been a delay in debiting your bank account for this transaction.

TRANSACTION DETAILS

DATE 16 Nov 2010
TIME (ET) 18:30:21
TRANSFER REF xxxxxxxx
TRANSFER AMOUNT $75.00


Your bank account ending in xxxx will be debited within 1-3 business days - please ensure that the appropriate funds are available.

Once debited, the transaction above will appear on your bank statement with the descriptor; "FTPayments".

If there are any additional transactions to be processed we will contact you in advance by email with the transaction details.

We apologize sincerely for any inconvenience - rest assured we are working as a priority to resolve these issues.

Sincerely,

Full Tilt Poker Support

No, this is unrelated to PMI, FT had 'processor issues' from `Nov. last year up to `Feb.-March in which the govt. closed/siezed one of their U.S. processors and they were unable to collect deposits from this time but they still credited poker accounts with funds, they are just now catching up on collecting these legitimate debts. Pretty commonly know, simple search will get you the threads.

Well done OP. I just came across this thread today. I was one of the original accounts that reported being fraudantly withdrawn from. Does anyone know more about this company? My bank told me that it was a company from Indiana called NATIONAL PAYMENT PROVIDER. If anyone can/ has access to information on htis company please release it

Sean, Doug, get back into the thread please, people need answers.