FTP Black Card Thread - Page 3 - Internet Poker

I did the calculations since I was curious how valuable the rewards would need to be to compare to supernova. Much to my surprise bare bones FTP already appears to be worth more than supernova. Although it somehow feels like this shouldn't be right but I can't find a flaw in my numbers. And one thing FTP does do well is their promotions. 2 $600 iron man bonuses per year, $300 for playing a week of rush poker, etc.

You've most likely forgotten to include MGR deductions. Almost everything that's extra value at FTP causes a deduction (except the mid-year bonus).

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09-25-2010 , 04:02 AM

#53

Do it Right

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,890

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelm

You've most likely forgotten to include MGR deductions. Almost everything that's extra value at FTP causes a deduction (except the mid-year bonus).

I did compensate for MGR hits for everything related to the calculations.

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09-25-2010 , 04:12 AM

#54

PJo336

THRILLHOUSE!

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22,158

Quote:

Originally Posted by Do it Right

too be fair i made that post before u posted ur calcs but forgot to post it lol. But I still dont think ftp >> Supernova sounds right, at least prior to this new promotion.

I also am hopeful, but I dont think the promotion can be that great, as 50k points in 100 days is incredibly easy for anyone 50nl and up

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09-25-2010 , 04:57 AM

#55

Perfection

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,349

FTP right now is 27% + IM

SN is like 40%+ depending on which games you play and how far into the 1M points chase you are.

I think a lot of FTP people didnt really look when Stars updated their SN system at the start of 2010.

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09-25-2010 , 06:17 AM

#56

tcs

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,455

Quote:

Originally Posted by Do it Right

Here's my attempt at compensating for rakeback/ironman. I worked out the figures in terms of the MGR that you eventually pay the site.

==========================================

Here are the calculations in terms of MGR.

6-max: 1 point per $0.17 MGR. That is (6players/6points) * ($1MGR/6players)
9-max: 1 point per $0.11 MGR. That is (9players/9points) * ($1MGR/9players)

Compare to Stars where it is:

6-max: 1 point per $0.18 MGR. That is (6players/5.5points) * ($1MGR/6players)
9-max: 1 point per $0.17 MGR. That is (9players/6points) * ($1MGR/9players)

==========================================

So year long black card requires 500*365 = 182500 points

This translates to an annual NON RAKEBACK COMPENSATED MGR of:

6-max = 182500 * .17 = $31025
9-max = 182500 * .11 = $20075

But Full Tilt also has 27% rakeback for free. So the logical method for comparison is to drop 27% off the required MGR since that is money you receive back. This gives a result of:

Full Tilt rakeback compensated black card requirements:

6-max = 182500 * .17 - .27 * (182500 * .17) = $22648.25
9-max = 182500 * .11 - .27 * (182500 * .11) = $14654.27

But then you also have iron man. This is much more difficult to calculate since it depends on how long you've had it for. I'll just do this for myself. I'm in the 30s which means I'll hit the max bracket during the next 12 months.

500 points per day gives a bonus of 2 iron man medals per day. Max bracket gives 900 iron man medals per month. And then there's 100 bonus medals per month or the freeroll. For simplicity I'll consider the bonus medals. So that's a total of 900*12 + 365*2 + 100*12 = 12,730 medals for a total of 12,730/3,000*600 = $2546 in bonuses. But these bonuses are taken from rakeback so the actual figure is 2,546*(1-.27) = 1858.58. Then there is $1000 in midyear/yearend iron man bonuses which are not taken from rakeback. For a total of $2858.58 from Iron Man.

==========================================

This gives a final tally of:

Full Tilt rakeback and ironman compensated black card requirements:

6-max = 182500 * .17 - .27 * (182500 * .17) - 2858.58 = $19,789.67
9-max = 182500 * .11 - .27 * (182500 * .11) - 2858.58 = $11,796.17

Poker Stars Supernova MGR requirements:

6-max = 100000 * .18 = $18000
9-max = 100000 * .17 = $17000

So a bit tougher than supernova at 6-max, much easier than supernova for 9-max.

Of course what matters now is the rewards you can purchase with your points. I'm really curious about this as I'm sitting on about half a million points as I'm sure many others are as well.

Remember that the FPP points are worth up around 40% rb for supernova

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09-25-2010 , 06:24 AM

#57

MilkMan

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,169

If this is just a One Tier system then it's gonna be lame as hell.

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09-25-2010 , 06:46 AM

#58

liketheStorm

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 105

it seems interesting, what do you think?
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/black-card

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09-25-2010 , 06:51 AM

#59

SiQ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 7,248

one time

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09-25-2010 , 06:53 AM

#60

Jah Onion

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 10,955

i think this topic sucks

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09-25-2010 , 06:53 AM

#61

Jah Onion

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 10,955

think it's gonna be bout 3 fiddy times worse than supernova on stars

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09-25-2010 , 06:54 AM

#62

Jah Onion

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 10,955

I think you need to pay more attention before posting

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...thread-883862/

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09-25-2010 , 10:13 AM

#63

ElHive

newbie

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Do it Right

Actually can somebody double check my numbers? If I didn't make a mistake that means you by default get 41.2% rakeback at full ring on FTP for 500 points per day, and 36.2% for 6-max. And that's BEFORE accounting for any FTP points/black card bonuses. That would make bare bones FTP before points better than super nova.

I think you forgot Stellar Rewards, 1st Milestone and FPP-Value to deduct from Supernova MGR-Requirements.

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09-25-2010 , 10:20 AM

#64

Alex Scott

adept

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 966

I really love the fact that it's based on a rolling 100-day period. The biggest weakness of other VIP systems, in my opinion, is that they're based on calendar months and years.

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09-25-2010 , 10:30 AM

#65

xxx

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,253

Quote:

Originally Posted by Do it Right

It sounds right to me. In another thread I had calculated that the crossover point where PS>FT at 200,000 VPP.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...1&postcount=15

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09-25-2010 , 10:58 AM

#66

hanuta81

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 239

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Scott

I really love the fact that it's based on a rolling 100-day period. The biggest weakness of other VIP systems, in my opinion, is that they're based on calendar months and years.

+1

i hope they change their iron man system to a daily average basis as well

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09-25-2010 , 12:30 PM

#67

PecanGrower

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 327

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanuta81

i hope they change their iron man system to a daily average basis as well

Seems very unlikely to me as the IM model really seems geared to conditioning people to play everyday.

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09-25-2010 , 12:42 PM

#68

FDSaussure

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,242

Rumour has it this scheme is designed to give players without rakeback effectively the same amount back, so 27%. I can only assume that refers to what will be the most expensive bonus in the store.

If this is the case and the bonuses deduct from MGR in the normal fashion then a player with 27% rakeback attaining the highest Black Card bonus should be getting around 45%.

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09-25-2010 , 12:50 PM

#69

PecanGrower

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 327

What do folks think '2x Full Tilt Points' means?

Example: If you play during happy hour, will you get 2x FTP's (like now), 3x FTP's (Happy Hour plus Black), or 4x FTP's (2x base points, and 2x Happy Hour points)?

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09-25-2010 , 12:53 PM

#70

Malefiicus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6,417

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDSaussure

That is ridiculous and can logically guarantee that is not the case. Maybe 15% at best, any more than that is way more than FTP would ever consider.

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09-25-2010 , 01:00 PM

#71

Fermion5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 8,381

Quote:

Originally Posted by Do it Right

i didn't double check, but it sounds correct to me.

The issue is that the players that play more than the "bare minimum" are better off with SN. The 41.2% drops to a lower number since ironman doesn't scale. And milestones of SN give you 40%+ RB, since they do scale.

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09-25-2010 , 01:18 PM

#72

curtains

banned

Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 17,681

Is there anywhere to check your FTP points history?

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09-25-2010 , 01:21 PM

#73

KEW

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 4,139

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtains

Is there anywhere to check your FTP points history?

Assuming only "base" point count towards BC you can use the Iron Man calendar..

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09-25-2010 , 01:21 PM

#74

barnsito

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 193

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtains

Is there anywhere to check your FTP points history?

You have to check your iron man promotions page and calculate from there AFAIK.

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09-25-2010 , 01:22 PM

#75

Fermion5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 8,381

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtains

Is there anywhere to check your FTP points history?

email support and they'll send you a spreadsheet.

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