huds help him make money,anon tables don't
he couldnt give a **** about the essense of poker

I know..bastards! Seriously though, I would give a limb and kidney right now (SLIGHT exaggeration) to have the old days back. I seriously HATED the Stars software (compared to FTP's and even preferred Bodogs clunker over it) but what I wouldn't give for some Stars Poker right now!

You can't sit in your drawers and play live poker, or play 20 tables at once in live poker, either. Should we eliminate those things from online poker just because they are different from live?

The idea that online poker has to be identical to live is silly and has only come up because Bodog dreamed it up as a way to (in their mind) cater to fish.

In reality, it's just a different experience and they are not meant to be the same. HUDs are part of that experience. SOMEONE is going to always figure out a smart way to stay ahead of the poker rooms and create a HUD that works, somehow. So the only smart thing is to make them legal, so EVERYONE has access to it, not just a few people.

That's what all the sensible poker rooms do, but Bodog is run by arrogant, elitist idiots.

HUDs don't help you play better. They are a convenience, that help you do what you could do anyway, using your own talent and learned skills, but do it faster and with less effort, so that you can play more tables and generate more rake. You would think a poker room would like that, and most do. Except the stupid ones.

As someone said somewhere recently, Bodog is the last remaining ugly broad at the bar at 3 AM, with guys falling all over her, getting the wrong impression that she's a prize catch, and becoming conceited and arrogant.

Most of the other good options have left the US market, so Bodog suddenly thinks they're in demand. In reality they only have an audience by default, and pissing on that audience is not a good idea (just like if the ugly broad gets TOO pushy, even the desperate drunks at the bar will say "**** it" and go home and rub one out).

That's actually always been the case with Bodog tournaments in my experience. You could always find a different number of people remaining in three different places that you looked and it never updated in real time.

I cashed out my bankroll the other day and didn't play any tournaments with the new ****ty software, but I imagine it's as bad, or worse.

http://calvinayre.com/2011/12/03/pok...the-follow-up/

cross-posting. lol.

Kylebs motivation for exposing these security flaws isnt really that important even if he does it to hurt Bodog he is still exposing serious problems, and Bodog is doing a better job hurting their brand that kyleb with the way they responded to his videos

Its possible that the risk of cheating is the same with or without anonymous tables but the only thing that is certain is that we now have no way of finding the cheating ourself. Bodogs respons to Kylebs videos have been to deny, threaten with lawsuits and claim that its not a big problem "few people will have the computer skills to do what kyleb is doing". This doesnt make me trust them, and i assume that if they catch cheaters on their site their reaction will be to minimize the damage and not to come clean and expose the cheating.

HUDs don't help you play better. They are a convenience, that help you do what you could do anyway, using your own talent and learned skills, but do it faster and with less effort, so that you can play more tables and generate more rake. You would think a poker room would like that, and most do. Except the stupid ones.

this is a complete load of ****

Honestly bodog management probably shouldnt say a thing because literally everything they have done/said in the past week has only made their managment look more ******ed than they were before since they are actually ******ed or just straight up lying and im pretty sure its both

i just looked up my bodog info and closed my account

I've never used a HUD in my entire life so this is about the most ignorant and ridiculous statement possibly in 2+2 forum history. I don't need them to win and won't ever use them. My argument has nothing to do with them.

I have no problem banning HUDS but I have a major problem banning vision. Yes, that destroys the essence of poker.

Please think before you speak or at the very minimum don't assume things about other people. It makes you look very bad.

I do to some extent and as I just said, I've never used them in my life.

Blindfolding me at my poker table while scrambling the voices of the ones sitting next to me 100% destroys the basic essence of poker.

Poker is not a video game. It's a human interaction game.

wow, CA is a total turd nugget. "No spike in payouts" part annoys the **** out of me. Payout volume MIGHT be the same as people generally tried to cash out 1x/month given the 1 free payout/month, but there's no way payouts in dollar figures aren't going up.

Check arrival times went from 1 week-->3 weeks overnight, which would imply Bodog is lying again.

As far as the account closures, nobody is going to close their account when they have a pending payout for the entire bankroll you ignorant ****s.

PR team gonna PR

Here's another question I asked Jonas:

"I recently spoke with two Bodog customer service representatives on the phone who informed me that Bodog withdrawals have been "higher than they ever have been" due to the update, as well as the fact that withdrawals tend to rise around the holidays (for people to purchase Christmas gifts and such). According to this article, only "two people have closed their accounts"...how can this be true, given what I've heard from two Bodog employees first hand? Are withdrawals really higher than ever, or were those representatives fabricating information? "

Bodog has been lying to us for weeks so them possibly lying here doesn't surprise me.

The Bodog poker rep on here had to actually resign because he couldn't handle defending their lies anymore.

In reality most people leaving WITHDRAW but don't OFFICIALLY CLOSE THEIR ACCOUNTS so Bodog may be using that technicality to help them in public relations.

Only 2 people withdrawing their bankroll is not literally possible. I personally know 14 people who have and that's just in my circle.

Playing devil's advocate a bit here, but couldn't Bodog use this argument to justify their stance? "The idea that Bodog poker has to be identical to other online poker is silly. It's just a different experience and they are not meant to be the same."

Again, I'm not suggesting that I like the changes. I just think that line of reasoning can open up a can of worms.

Good point but I would argue back that it doesn't have to be exactly like live poker, but it does have to be like POKER.

When you removed elements that are part of the strategic game, aspects that are used to make the game a skill game, you are destroying the game.

And in turn, destroying your poker site.

The biggest issue I have with a site like Bodog making every player anonymous (or trying to) is that now there really is no way of knowing if you're up against real players or the site itself.

Honestly, what is to stop Bodog from sticking 2 or 3 "players" of their own (read "Bots") who win, lose or draw just like real players...but of course who, over time, end up taking a fair chunk of the prize money on Bodog's behalf. The shuffle can be random, the card play normal but on a 9 handed table just have two "bots" working for Bodog will seriously increase their profits.

Remember, money, computers, gambling = the potential to CHEAT and I think that's exactly what Bodog is doing here. In their desire to recruit poker donkeys they will succeed only in alienating their regular customers.

Bodog should read this article:

http://pokerfuse.com/features/editor...-888s-success/

What was stopping bodog from doing this when players were not anonymous?

Their inability to hire competent programmers.

(If they can't fix a rebuy button, I doubt they can program bots.)

Cake really has it right here. Allowing periodic screen name changes frustrates the dataminers and gives a degree of anonymity to those that want it. But it doesn't force anonymity on 100% of the poker-playing population. Bodog is basically forcing EVERYONE to be anonymous 100% of the time. A segment of the poker-playing population may like this (bot developers will love it), but the majority that doesn't like it, and that will include plenty of recreational players, will leave.

there is only one thing to say to all of this

lloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooololololololooooooooooool

Online poker already removes one element of poker that many players would say is in fact the biggest element of poker - tells and the need for a "poker face." In fact many live players argue this destroys the game of poker.

I think this whole "essence" of poker is just not a winning argument. The game has changed and will change. I don't think you're going to convince causal players that just because you can't have long term reads, you've destroyed the game of poker.

Absolutely nothing but now Bodog has the potential to place one real player onto a table with 8 bots and you have no way of knowing otherwise.

At least with ID's one can trace a pattern of suspicious behavior. One can also trace monkey business with tracking software...players who are huge winners over a short period of time on low stake tourneys and ring games who go on "heaters" of hundreds of games where they win 90% of their showdowns, even when far behind. Tracking software allows you to avoid those "players".

Now on Bodog you have no chance as a live player.

I couldn't disagree more.

It's not just "long term reads." With the way the cash tables are set up now you can get a short term read on someone and he can leave the table and someone new can replace him and you wouldn't even know. Even worse that same player can come back to the table and sit somewhere new and you wouldn't know. It kills a good percentage of reads in general, short and long and essentially destroys a good part of the skill part of poker, which is reading your opponent.

The game may "change" but not the true essence of the game. Online poker has reads just like live poker but because you can't see faces it's even more important to know the names.

And that's not even figuring in safety/security issues or social issues.

I think some things are getting blown out of proportion here- just so everyone is clear on the facts, there was no threat of lawsuit or denial from Bodog Network, they thanked KyleB for identifying the bug and it has since been fixed.

Thanks!
Becky