Stiffs are such a small percentage of the players that they make no difference to the poker room or the poker dealer's bottom line.. I stand corrected.

Someone not tipping does not affect me at all. However, it just bothers me that someone could be so selfish and cheap, however, at the end of the day it doesn't change anything for me..

But it doesn't bother you that someone (ie a dealer) could be so greedy and corrupt that he would screw over somebody over a $1 tip.

Me personally would never go out of my way to screw over a stiff, but I'm not going out of my way to accommodate him either.

Isn't part of your job to serve people equally, and live with what you get? I mean, if you provide everyone with stellar service, the rest should take care of itself.

I realize that's probably a little too idealistic, but once upon a time I used to tip dealers at the end of their downs. If I didn't win a pot, you still got tipped. It was all based on dealer performance, but being treated like a stiff for 30 minutes wasn't really inspiring to give a big toke at the end of a down, so I stopped doing that.

Yep. Getting grumpy with the non tipper looks bad.
Borderline cheating him is not likely to improve tips from the rest of the table.

Better to show some class and give him the same good service as everyone else.
Occasionally the non tipper will surprise me with a toke. I've even seen them turn into tippers.

I never said anything about getting grumpy with a stiff. Listen stiffs are part of the game. calling it cheating is a bit much as well.

I agree. I think it's much more reasonable to expect a service provider to provide varying levels of service based on varying levels of tips. If you provide everyone with stellar service, you're likely wasting effort.

In europe you tip change to make the figure more round like 39$=> 40$.

Definetely no 10% or 20% rules I think its extremely rude if someone expects a tip. Just pay your employees correctly so they can do there job without begging or need for tips.

I wasn't replying to you. Just my thoughts to what z4reio said.

I agree with what you said here.

Doesn't matter what I post, it will default to 'just making myself feel good' in your mind. However, that post was not about me or how I feel. Those were demonstrations to make three points:

1. Cheap and non-tippers' existence contributes to more money for businesses and tipped employees than had they not existed.
   
2. Separating costs, i.e. lower cost of product + tips as opposed to an all inclusive product cost results in higher overall cost paid by consumers.
   
3. Receiving sub min wages + tips translates to more money for employees compared to a non-tipping model where consumer prices and employee wages are raised.

I don't know what percentage of customers are exclusively 'stiffers', but I'd guess it'd still be > 1%. Not to mention 'cheap' tippers like myself, who probably make up at least 10% of customers. Regardless, though it may be irrelevant in one night or some small sample size, it is very relevant long term.

I didn't answer because you already have me pegged as one who 'only makes justifications to make myself feel better'. But I have touched on it ITT if you must know. I did make a reference in this post: I also went into more detail around mid April when another poster was tearing into me in a similar manner as you.


FYI, if you can ever get past your biased perception that I am some miserably evil hater of tipping and the tipping system, you might realize that some of my posts are geared towards understanding and are designed to alleviate resentment.

I think this is excellent advice to give anybody with a tip dependent job. Even keeled is the way to go. Cheap tippers can be won over. And I can speak as a cheap tipper. Even though I might not have tipped that dealer last week during my last session does not mean I will not tip next time. Though a display of resentment in an instance where I didn't tip, can prevent likeliness for future tips.

"Cheapness" is innate. My father in law is cheap. He has plenty of money, it's just a way of being. He's always looking for a bargain in everything he does in life. He tips a standard amount in restaurants (15%) because it's a social norm. It hurts him to part with money. He feels some type of moral victory when he gets a bargain. Its just the way he is..

If that's the way you are, fine. Difference is you are taking advantage of all the tippers in the room, knowing people like yourself are only 1, maybe 2% of players. And, to be honest, your statement, "stiffs can be won over", is a crock. You'll stiff the staff, and once in a while, a dealer will do something nice, or you'll get on a heater, and throw them $1 and expect them to think you're some hero of sorts, when you've been stiffing for weeks. That's even more D-baggish than not tipping at all. Lets just agree to disagree.

This x1000. If you're going to be a stiff at least own it.

All of this "stiff" talk reeks of entitlement.

For the record, I don't tip people for doing their jobs which they get paid for doing. I worked non-tipping, min-wage, customer service-oriented jobs that were a lot riskier and physically demanding than pitching cards or serving food and drinks. I don't resent them for that, I just don't go all Milgram on the irrational concept of gratuity.

Call it bribing already, ffs, because that's what it ****ing is. You're paying for favourable treatment. It's like slipping the bouncer a note to bypass the two hour line. That's not a tip, that's a ****ing bribe.

I'm sorry you worked a job for which you felt you were underpaid, but that doesn't change the fact that salaries of tipped employees are comprised using tips as part of that theoretical payment threshold and if they didn't get tipped, the cost would just be more directly passed on to the customer in a uniform fashion. Just be glad you can stiff and get more value for your dollar and not be held accountable, but calling it bribery isn't a fair assessment.

You'll have to excuse me if I DGAF about "theoretical payments" (profits or gross, effectively) unless I own the business, but rather GAF about actual payments, as an employee.

And calling a spade a spade is an accurate assessment, even if it may be deemed unfair (or harsh, basically).

Also, don't be sorry about something even I wasn't sorry about. It taught me the value of the buck earned that many of you are so eager to throw away in the false belief of being ethical (lol).

Cheapness is not innate. There was a time when I routinely tipped restaurant servers 20%+ and dealers $1 minimum every pot regardless. Eventually, I realized (and not really that I just realized, but more so that I quit pretending it wasn't the case) that plenty of these folks I've been generously tipping are ungrateful, pretentious, and spiteful (Of course some are still grateful, humble, and benevolent too). And as such, I have evolved into a cheapskate. Oh, and I don't deny that my self serving principles to save money has something to do with it. I have relatively recently adopted more of a 'gratuities ought to be earned in the truest sense of gratuity' instead of a 'mindless tipping standard of this service automatically gets this amount of a tip as long as the task is simply performed'.

This is ridiculous. According to your spiteful intent: Tip or else bear the shame in some a scarlet letter type manner of being labelled 'cheapskate' or 'stiff'. Patrons are supposed to just tip, earning gratuities be damned.

You are correct, there are some miserable, ungrateful dealers out there. But they are the minority (just as stiffs are). However, in my experience, cheapskates/stiffs will look to find ANY reason to find fault in a dealer (pitched 1 card too soft, made a mistake in 2006 that cost me 2 BB, talks too much/little) to justify stiffing them (and make themselves feel good about being a d-bag because now there's a reason behind it, not just "I'm a cheap bastard and want that $1 for myself).

Lester, again, I can't take you seriously because every example you give is just to self justify not tipping.. It's a psychological ploy to make yourself feel good about what you are doing. If a dealer truly is awful, unfriendly, ungrateful, and makes the game lousy and miserable, they shouldn't get any tips, I wouldn't tip them either, but most stiffs nitpick ANYTHING to justify it.

^^^^ Nailed it. If someone doesn't feel like parting with their money, they're going to look for any possible reason, no matter how minor, to justify keeping it instead of tipping.

Thank you, phunkphish, for injecting some reality into a subject filled with so much bull****.

Beautiful people win when it comes to tips. I've seen a beautiful dealer (probably 20, blonde, very feminine and sexy) get tipped a green chip on a 100 dollar pot by some 40 year old dude. Right there and then I was about to say, "are you expecting a blow job from her later?" If there was no risk in being booted from the game for that comment, I would have just said it, because don't ****ing tell me that's an acceptable gratuity.

WTF @ that tip?!

I might go over 12% for that.

LoL That is funny. I think It would have been funny. If anyone got angry I just would of said im joking im joking haha.

From experience if I am a regular I can't be a stiff nor would I want to be. I would rather tip accordingly and fairly. As long as you are not a stiff who doesn't tip on anything or only once in a blue moon then you have nothing to worry about.

Also if someone does throw 3 red birds on a 70 dollar pot I am not going to adjust my tipping because of some over tipper/ moron. I just account that the dealer hit four of a kind that hand.

If someone wins 5 hands in a row and doesn't throw a dollar I am also not letting that bother me, but what you can do is see other peoples reaction / even the dealers reaction to the stiff and you can get a read on your opponents accordingly.

Many of us have worked minimum-wage, non-tipped jobs throughout our lives. Doing so doesn't make you special. I happen to love my dealing job, but I'll also freely admit that the tipping aspect is one of the big reasons I chose this profession. Many of my past jobs have been in the service industry, with tips as my main form of income. I've waitressed, worked in commissioned-sales, and now dealing. If I can help it, I will never again take a job that pays a straight hourly wage. I do so much better in a tipped profession.

Tips are not bribes. They are thank-you's for a job well-done. While slipping the bouncer a note to skip lines IS a bribe, that's not what you're doing when you tip someone. Tips are for services rendered. A bribe is paid before anything is done for you, with the expectation that it will get you what you want.

Listen, no one has to tip. But it's part of this particular job, it's the norm, and it's why so many people choose this industry. I think it's offensive for people who CHOSE to be employed in straight hourly positions to get angry with me for making good money at my job. A lot of it is jealousy. Just because someone only makes $9.65 an hour at a more demanding job, that doesn't mean they can look down at me for making more doing supposedly "easy" work. If you want to get paid more, then get out there and find a different job. Otherwise, stop complaining about people who make more than you while (again, supposedly) having it easier.