I think the top 90% of dealers do a pretty similar job. The bottom 10% are so slooooooooow that even if people don't tip them less they make less from so many fewer hands.

Be careful here. You are making Angus' point beautifully. When management leaves your pay up to the players, they are forcing all of this variance upon you. If they simply paid well, this behavior would not affect your pay.

I believe in the ideal ( read extremely unlikely to happen ) setup, dealers get paid well by the casino. This forces the management to train, watch, and routinely evaluate its dealers to make sure they are competent. I think in America that great dealers would still receive tips, even though they may be smaller, so that they are really now incentivized.

Saw some extreme nittiness in tipping last night. A couple guys start playing 2/5 at a local casino and I see they have half dollar coins next to their stacks. I wasn't sure what they were for until one of the dealers ships over a $600+ pot to the guy next to me. He ends up tossing exactly one of the half dollars to him! The rest of the night neither of these guys tip at all, even in $100 pots I didn't say anything obviously because I'm not going to judge anybody on their tipping policy but honestly why give anything at all in that huge pot?

Was the service any good?

Bolt, I'd like to emphasize your whatever reason. In that, the reason is however you individually decide, rather than a specific standard reason used as justification for how people 'should' tip.

I understand both sides of the argument. I have rules on tipping I think is very generous. I play 1-2nl if I raise preflop and only steal blinds I throw them back and thank the dealer for his/her efforts. Im not playing to win $3 at a time. Any pot up to $50 I throw a buck. $50-$100 gets $2. For every hundred is $5.

So, you steal the blinds tip $3.

You're my kinda player

If this has been discussed I apologize for not reading the 200+ pages.

RE: Tournament Tipping

If said casino takes out of PP for dealers/staff etc (3%) pursuant to the state law enacted by the gaming board, do you still tip going deep?

I understand shipping a Main Event is one thing, but was curious what others do when traveling to different casinos where they might take x% out of PP for dealers, staff, etc.

Again, it's a personal choice and it depends.

My local casino tourneys usually are pretty small and only pay top 10. If I finish 10th and barely make any money I don't tip.

Last month three of us ended up chopping and I thought the dealers we had were very good so I left a tip with the floor and made a point of praising the dealers.

Just my approach.

Making his point beautifully?? You're pretty funny.

Matrix mgmt pays their dealers the industry rate. If casinos paid them more per hour, the rake would go up and the cost wold be passed on to you, the player.

Made Angus' point?? Right.

Less than 20 hours a week in the box in real poker games vs 30. Pushing NL over Limit doesn't help either. Making sure nobody qualifies for benefits (not take home, but affects a dealer's bottom line).

Yes, perfectly. Allow me to run it by you.

Matrix will most certainly raise the rake to pay dealers a fair wage.

You can, if you choose stop tipping altogether, or just for excellent service, or whatever reason you choose without causing dealers undue harm.

Mr hockey can continue his ways as well, but now he is paying his way automatically.

Do not forget my initial post that said this is unlikely to happen. It is not a problem at Matrix. You put it just right when you said they pay INDUSTRY standard rate.

Why do you care what other players tip? Ive never understood this. Id rather be at a table where im not expected to shell out 20% of my WR per hr rather than some guy dropping redbirds for every $20 pot and giving me **** when i dont tip until show down. If ANYTHING, other poker players should support other players for tipping as little as possible. I tip only when i go to showdown and win, whatever the amount of the pot is. Thats it. If I pull down even a 1 to 2k pot they are only getting $2 or $3 max

And you'll get exactly the service you deserve. Good luck.


q/q

Enjoy having as bad of dealers as they had at the Series this year

I thought the bad dealers were all the fault of CET.

You could guarantee $200 a day in tips at the WSOP and the level of dealers would not significantly increase. No decent dealer I know in San Jose would go deal the WSOP for that amount (except maybe to be able to say "Been there, dealt that").

Is that because they'd make same/more working their normal shifts in SJ, or is dealing WSOP a living hell?

They make roughly that here.

But even if they were making $150, would the extra $50/day be worth it to try to get time off, pay for place in LV for a couple of months while paying rent back home, etc. ?

Maybe some of the full time dealers here would say how much (guaranteed) they would need to go deal the WSOP, just from a financial standpoint.

I'm just saying that there is much more to the dealer situation at the WSOP than "the cheap players don't tip enough so good dealers don't want to deal it".

That's reasonable. That's a royal pain to make an extra $50/day. Plus in reality it's not guaranteed at all.

But the reasons why WSOP dealers were bad doesn't really have much to do with fuluck's point.

Can't speak for San Jose, haven't worked there, but could plug in any city I've worked and can honestly say a little bit of both. As an experienced dealer who has multiple WSOP's and WSOP-C's under my belt, I can tell you that it can be hell. And to the poster above who said if you raise the pay to $200 per day and the good dealers wouldn't come? Incorrect. I know a lot of good dealers who have no intention of returning to the WSOP because they CAN'T make $200 a day, even if they deal cash all day. The biggest cash games have the rudest and most stiff players, no one wants to deal them due to the treatment they get+little tipping. The tournament issue at the WSOP, IMO, is this. Players these days all want deep structure . Its all we hear about anymore. In turn, the rake HAS to go up to staff these events. Then players refuse to tip and whine about high rake, and the good dealers who worked their butts off make hardly any money after expenses. So they don't return. They find cushy house jobs and make a living. So the next year, players still want a deep structure. Since the good dealers say screw that place, a bunch of inexperienced dealers are brought it, players complain, don't tip, and the remaining good dealers don't come back, and another wave of break in dealers come in. The days of 10% rake are over, since deep structure has become the norm. Dealers have always been treated like dog doo, but its getting worse all the time. Good dealers get fed up and say screw it, and find work elsewhere.

Nice moving the goalposts.

Again, how much do you think a good dealer would have to make a day at the WSOP to make sure he comes back?

I would go back to the WSOP if I could be guaranteed $200+ per day. I used to work 2 jobs at that time anyway. But as far as why good dealers don't return, money is only part of the problem. All the other parts that suck could be tolerated with better pay though.

I would come back for $200 per day. With the cost of living for us who don't live in Vegas, 6+ weeks @$200 a week min for a room is brutal. And he's right, its not just the pay. All the other stuff I've had to deal with isn't worth it for the small pay, is all. I guess I'm not smart enough, I don't know what you mean by moving the goalposts? Honest question, dunno what that means.

Makes no difference the amount of service you get whether you tip or not. Fast dealers will still be fast, slow dealers will still be slow, and other players will be there to help govern when they make a mistake.

If you mean service as in how nice and chatty the dealer will be to me, I couldn't care less. I just find it completely pointless to tip dealers excessively. Rake is already way high, games are getting more difficult. I'm going to get the same cards.

I have a feeling some of the people who don't like the current system aren't really bothered by the threat of quality changes, and in fact might not mind just going back to self-dealt games.