NEW Poker After Dark - Week 2 of the 50k Cash Game - Who Will Win The Most Money? - Page 17 - Poker Card Room

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NEW Poker After Dark - Week 2 of the 50k Cash Game - Who Will Win The Most Money?

View Poll Results: Who Will Win The Most Money?

Todd Brunson

12 6.03%

Mike Matusow

6 3.02%

Phil Hellmuth

18 9.05%

Brandon Adams

35 17.59%

Antonio Esfandiari

38 19.10%

Chris Ferguson

9 4.52%

David "Viffer" Peat

76 38.19%

Dennis Phillips

5 2.51%

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03-26-2010 , 12:14 PM

#401

wtk300

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 144

Quote:

Originally Posted by tskarzyn

I'm a nobody on the forum, but can someone (mod, older poster) please start a petition to ban triptwelves? People shouldn't have to sift through pages upon pages of his gibberish to get a summary of a PAD or HSP episode. Every thread he posts in becomes a wasteland and this forum is becoming unreadable.

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03-26-2010 , 12:23 PM

#402

tskarzyn

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 317

Quote:

Originally Posted by some1

just put him on your ignore list. that's what everyone else does.

Ah good call, will do

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03-26-2010 , 12:24 PM

#403

tskarzyn

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 317

Quote:

Originally Posted by wtk300

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03-26-2010 , 12:25 PM

#404

AngerPush

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 32,327

love the doll

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03-26-2010 , 01:25 PM

#405

pineapple888

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 13,111

Quote:

Originally Posted by molinn9

Can anyone explain Dennis thought process when he had J5 of hearts thx.

Who knows?

Calling on the button against a squeeze from a known spaz might be reasonable, even without much of a hand. I'd like it better if they were deeper.

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03-26-2010 , 01:26 PM

#406

Brooks54

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 112

he had money in and looking to hit two hearts? Exactly, who knows.

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03-26-2010 , 01:32 PM

#407

bababoosh

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3

The hand between Phillips and Todd was ugly to watch, they both played the turn weird -- hell, DP played the whole hand poorly before sucking out -- and Todd made a bit of a bad call on the river. It seems like Todd is a good enough player to be mixing it up more in this lineup, but then he does a few things that make me see why he's not among the best of the best.

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03-26-2010 , 01:34 PM

#408

Jabonator

nice piano there

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 13,343

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojoh07

Im amazed how many posters in here can refute that Phil IS the greatest when it comes to tournies , its one thing to hate , its another to look for loopholes to prove ur flawed opinion. I truley believe they are trying to level .

Stats talk , haters walk , its that simple.

As you were complaining about someone calling you an idiot and using bad grammar - learn to use dots and commas... The space only comes on the right.

And just my 2 cents to the argument going on about PH. We all know he sucks at cash games, but is good at NLHE tournaments. He has the most bracelets and cashes in the WSOP, but I wouldn't call him the best tournament player. It can be arguable to call him the best in the history, but not anymore, IMO. Diego Maradona is arguably the greatest footballer of all time, but that doesn't mean he's still the best.

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03-26-2010 , 02:02 PM

#409

JasonP530

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,324

Quote:

Originally Posted by wins_pot

Guys, Thanks for the kind words. Viff is the man and he doesn't do coke. I don't know if I can link a blog (please take it down if not), but I started an economics blog very recently (http://macroeconomicwoes.wordpress.com/blog-2/) and I sidetrack towards poker to talk about this hand.

excerpt....

-For a 6-handed ante game, this table has played very tight up to this point.

-I bluffed Phil in one fairly big pot before this where I re-raised pre with 78o in position, bet the flop (I hit an open-ended straight draw), checked behind on the turn, then bluffed the river.

-The hand starts out as a play on Mike. I had a “tell” on him and made a play. As it turns out, I was wrong; he had a strong hand (AJo). He folded and then Phil looked like he would fold as well. Phil instead 4-bets to $6800!

-This made for a very bizarre spot. My holding is unconstrained. In fact, it’s fairly likely that I have a super premium hand here. Phil’s holdings, in my view, are constrained — I simply can’t see him choosing to slowplay aces or kings here, even though he likes to slowplay in general. Mike’s been playing exceptionally tight and he is not very deep. Slowplaying aces or kings against such an opponent in a cutoff vs button situation would be just a terrible move. In the unlikely event Phil is slowplaying, his best move if he thinks I’m bluffing is to just call my 3-bet and hope I continue firing.

-The sick part of the hand, for me, is that I know that Phil is an exceptional hand-reader and I know that he knows that I know that his play in the hand has been irrational. Given that, I have to assume he’s setting me up for a blow-up of some kind. If I’m bluffing, he might reason that none of my options are that great. I can 1) give up, 2) call (can’t be a good spot for me out of position), 3) move all-in (stupid for me given that there’s $10500 in the pot and we have $70k each behind), or 4) raise (If I raise and I’m bluffing, he can move in, and I won’t have the odds to call).

-I decided to raise with a plan to follow through on a missed flop. I just couldn’t imagine him 6-betting me in this spot. I don’t think he has aces or kings here. If he’s got a dead-read and moves in without a hand, I’ll admire the play and move on, but it seemed very unlikely to me that he’d risk putting in 70k drawing less than 20%.

-So some background on Phil. He’s one of the best. I honestly believe that he’s a tremendous hand reader, one of the strongest in the game. He’s a much, much better tournament player than cash player for a simple reason — he’s too weak-passive. Weak-passive is not a bad style in tournaments b/c the stacks are usually shallow and the money usually gets in before the flop or on the flop. If you’re playing against players who overvalue their hands (and/or you are a great hand reader), you will win the money playing weak-tight in tournaments. In a deep-stacked live cash game, weak-passive play is death. Big money decisions in live games usually occur on the turn and river, and the weak-passive style sets itself up for nasty decisions on these late streets. Phil actually has the worst type of weak-passive play for deep live games, which is a weak-passive style which puts very high value on the super premium hands (AA, KK, QQ); this strategy implies that in big pots, you will tend to be both passive and out of position!

-Bluffing a strong hand reader like Phil is dangerous. Sometimes they will just have a solid read on you and they will get you to put the money in drawing dead or nearly dead. There are some players that I just don’t bluff in really big pots. I wouldn’t bluff Kenny Tran here. His reads are too good. I wouldn’t bluff Viffer in this exact spot (not that I wouldn’t bluff you Viff! It just wouldn’t work here). I wouldn’t bluff Nick Schulman here, not so much b/c of reading ability but b/c he’s the type to have AA or KK here when he CAN’T have that hand.

-When the club draw comes, in my view I have to ship it ($40 k in the pot, ~48k effective behind) even though I might not play it that way with aces. Having him fold here is so much better for me than playing a contested pot at 38% that I’m better off pushing and removing any hope of fold equity from his mind. Further, we haven’t played big pots like this in the past; as far as he’s concerned, I might easily have aces here.

-I’m reasonably happy with my acting. My voice cracks when I say all-in. That’s bad from an acting point of view, but it’s not so bad in this hand, b/c a voice-crack in a spot like that indicates strength as often as weakness. It’s hard to interpret. It might stem from the adrenaline of having a huge hand in a big spot. Or it might stem (as in this case) from nervousness when executing a big bluff.

-If the club draw doesn’t hit, my bet size will depend on the board. There are some boards where I’m going to bet 18k or 20k and fold to a raise. If the board comes like QJ2 with two spades, I can’t risk my whole stack. If an ace or king hits in an unconnected way, I move in, even if I have no piece. I can’t give him thoughts of fold equity in that spot; if he has an ace or king (both unlikely) or hits a set or makes a hero call, I just have to get it in dead (it’s a risk worth taking at 40k-to-48k odds). When an ace or king hits, he has to be concerned that I’ve bluffed but made my hand on the flop.

-I’m very happy Phil folded, but a fold can’t make sense for him given the way he’s played the hand. This is a great board for him if he thinks I’m bluffing.

Brandon

How can you call him a great hand reader based on the way he played this hand? There was roughly 0 logic to calling 10k more pre and then folding on that board. Oh wait, he had a "read." Isn't that the point where he jumps up and down about how great he is when you roll AA(which you never do with the flop bet size) or calls you an idiot when you bluff him? He says a lot of stuff, and sometimes, by chance, it happens to be right.

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03-26-2010 , 02:21 PM

#410

Veil

adept

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 812

I think branding PH as too weak passive is a bit 1-dimensional. Sure a lot of the time he can be, but he can actually mix it up well sometimes and be very aggressive. He sometimes plays hands well.

I think the thing that makes him a bad cash game player in general is, much like Daniel Negreanu, he lacks a strong understanding of the fundamentals. His bet sizing is often ridiculous, and he very often doesn't give his opps enough credit. He often gets lost in the most basic of situations that frequently come up in NL.

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03-26-2010 , 03:44 PM

#411

repaupo

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 205

I like the way PH plays, it's a bit on the nitty side but i don't think he gets enough credit for his play.

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03-26-2010 , 07:13 PM

#412

jojoh07

adept

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,128

Quote:

Originally Posted by wins_pot

All class . Thanx BA

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03-26-2010 , 07:15 PM

#413

jojoh07

adept

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,128

[QUOTE=Veil;17759387]I think branding PH as too weak passive is a bit 1-dimensional. Sure a lot of the time he can be, but he can actually mix it up well sometimes and be very aggressive. He sometimes plays hands well.

I think the thing that makes him a bad cash game player in general is, much like Daniel Negreanu, he lacks a strong understanding of the fundamentals. His bet sizing is often ridiculous, and he very often doesn't give his opps enough credit. He often gets lost in the most basic of situations that frequently come up in NL.[/QUOTE]

BONGO , that is by far his biggest flaw.

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03-26-2010 , 07:18 PM

#414

jojoh07

adept

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reapupo

I like the way PH plays, it's a bit on the nitty side but i don't think he gets enough credit for his play.

Disagree . I like PH as much as anyone but there is nothing to like about the way he has been playing these cash games lately. from his blogs and posts it seems like he is finally realizing he needs to change his game to sit at a table of world class cash game players.

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03-26-2010 , 07:20 PM

#415

ChristianT

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,811

BA you're the best. You have a very unique style of play. I guess it takes some top pair folds for you to get all comfortable with a ten high 80k bluff. Anyways, you're cool.

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03-26-2010 , 07:20 PM

#416

BigSoonerFan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 11,214

Quote:

Originally Posted by RNauta

How is it funny ? I guess teen tards have a low humor tolerance, they'll laugh at anything and start about 'greatest epic moment in history' about every half-assed joke.

I thought it was funny and I have a low tolerance of juvenile humor (and I'm over 40). It's funny because Phil is calling a Harvard professor an idiot. While a professor can still be an idiot at poker, it's still funny that Todd said it.

Lighten up, Frances.

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03-26-2010 , 07:23 PM

#417

BigSoonerFan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 11,214

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonP530

There's a difference between being a great reader and following up on a read. Phil is one of the guys who is less likely to depend on his reads. If he was wrong, he was dead. Daniel Negreanu also doesn't always follow up on his reads, only in the opposite way.

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03-26-2010 , 07:31 PM

#418

Freewill2112

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,372

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSoonerFan

Typical Daniel thought process on the river: "Well, you can't have that, you can't have that. You might have that. Okay, I think you have either that, or that. I call. Damn, knew you had that. Nice hand."

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03-26-2010 , 09:52 PM

#419

maxz

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 228

This latest episodes is just so pathetic, everyone getting run over by Viffer. This game needs someone to stand up to him.

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03-27-2010 , 01:51 AM

#420

DontRaiseMeBro

adept

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,105

ba can u do a well please????

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03-27-2010 , 02:24 AM

#421

Rmbxr9

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,012

Mike just knew B.A had 10,10 or Q,Q...
He just knew, that or nothing

Great call Mike

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03-27-2010 , 02:49 AM

#422

Fracchiolla

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 461

That Viffer looks half baked.

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03-27-2010 , 02:57 AM

#423

iplayscared

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,904

wtf does viffer keep doing with his mouth.

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03-27-2010 , 03:02 AM

#424

Jimmy Proffett

SE's NFL Swami

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 23,071

Viffer looking a little long in the waist on that last shot.

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03-27-2010 , 03:05 AM

#425

Fracchiolla

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 461

Quote:

Originally Posted by iplayscared

wtf does viffer keep doing with his mouth.

Paul Magriel's love child.

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