Why ?? In this instance he has proven reasonable backing with FACTS , something others opposing him have yet to do .

Appreciate a set of unbiased eyes. So many people here are clouded by their own arrogant ignorance.

Yea EVERYONE is wrong except for you amirite

goddd...todd brunson is so boringggg!!!

that guy says i'm wrong; he's biased!
this guy agrees with me; he's unbiased!

Shut up about PH and tournaments, everyone.

This thread is about the televised PAD *cash game* if you hadn't noticed.

There are dozens of threads about Hellmuth's tournament reputation in the Zoo and NVG.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Too bad Hellmuth left the game.

No you clearly do not understand that ROI is important. It's not just important over the long term - it's basically the f-ing be and end all of comparing results. Actual results based? Soo, that would be ROI - what is his? I don't think it's all that high to be honest (I've already discussed this at length in the other thread).

Doyle may have played in more events, same with Men Ngyen and a few others - but I think it's close, and they have impressive results based on your criteria. And especially in the recent years, Phil plays every single goddamn event possible.

The thing you might want to think about is that, since you agree that PH is absolutely dreadful in cash games, how do think that might correlate with his tourney skills? The two games aren't totally drastically different at all. Phil is competent at beating bad players with 20-50bbs. This isn't really a hard skill at all. Anyone who even learned the game in a day and has an average IQ could do well in donkaments. If you ignore his roi, he could very well have very impressive results in your illogical sense.

"I don't think it's all that high"---good research

"The two games aren't totally drastically different at all." ---Actually, ask any thinking player (unlike yourself) and you're answer will be that they're two completely different beasts.

"Could do well in donkaments" ---This isn't a question of who COULD do what. This is a question of who HAS done what.

+1
If Leann ever asks me to stay I'm stayin'.

I said I already discussed it at length in many posts in a recent thread. Check out the Hellmuth thread in NVG. But it's really hard to estimate his ROI. We just know he's played in the most or close to the most in history. Why don't you show me some research of his supposed high ROI? The onus is on you since you claim it's the best in the world and that we can't even argue against it. This is just absurd.

Tom Dwan: "I don't play tournies and cash games all that differently [sic]"

No, it's a question of whether or not you could drag some random guy with an average IQ off the street, teach him some basic strategy, buy him into every tournament, and see how he does. I'd lay money that if this guy gets on any sort of heater the results will surprise you.

And this is supposed to prove what? Durrrballs has never won a significant tournament.

Thanks for owning yourself and proving my point for me though. Appreciated.

Are you 14 or something btw? Just curious.

Dwan is probably the best NL player in the world. For you to just brush off this quote shows your ignorance and stupidity.

Tom has played in such a small amount of tournaments that your critique is absurd. Besides he has final tabled one wpt and basically two wsop final tables. So his ROI I would guess is high.

LOL....i really hope you're joking at everything you just said.

You're insulting yourself. I'd think durrrrtard is a lifetime loser in tournaments and has a negative tournament ROI.

kevmath can u just ban triptwelves?? this guy singlehandedly derails and ruins every single thread that he participates in with his mindless/pointless arguing with other posters. Triptwelves die in a fire

It's a public forum for a reason chump. I have just as much of a right to be here as you do..sorry to say.

You'll find plenty of people agreeing with what I've said. Plenty of people have chirped in on the same stuff I've talked about, and I'm doing nothing different than anyone else here.

Whine Whine Whine...here's some cheese.

And btw...it takes two people to argue...all I've done is posted my opinions. It's not my fault people want to fire back with nonsense that needs smothering.

Something has been posted a while ago concerning WSOP:

Beautiful. Just beautiful. I love it when I'm right and DevinLake is wronger than wrong.

I can't wait to see if this shuts people up and they admit I was right...or if they find some weaselhole to try and squeeze their incorrect nonsense through.

Dennis Phillips in to spice up the game. lulz

hahaha nice. I imagine he and viffer have never played together before, but it's going to be cool to see how their styles clash, even if it's for one more night.

OK, my two cents:

I don't think anyone can really belittle Hellmuth's WSOP accomplishments. I mean, that's just absurd. And yes he won most of his bracelets when the fields were much smaller -- still, there were a ton of pros that didn't win anywhere near as much as he did, with the exception of Chan and Seidel.

In a lot of ways, Hellmuth honed/perfected the ABCs of tournament poker. He can make some really disciplined folds and makes good reads on people who are playing conventional style tournament poker. That is, he seems to have a good handle on whether or not someone has a 99-JJ type hand or a AQ/AJ type hand or a KK+ type hand. Those types of edges are pretty important in small field tournaments where people don't want to go broke with JJ (lulz).

Also, he's remained moderately successful in tournaments even though everyone is gunning for him and attacking him with 3/4-bets preflop because they know he doesn't want to go broke without the nuts. That indicates some level of adjustment has been going on.

That said, he's obviously clueless when playing against world-class players who are comfortable playing a wider range than 12/10. Poker has evolved a lot since his heyday and he's trying to play some weird, nitty/passive/overly trappy style.

Take the AQo on the BTN hand in HSP. He limps a premium hand on the button -- why? Because he's dreaming of the day he traps Phil Ivey's QJ on a Q-high flop for $200K? Just an absurd play, just as it was absurd for him to fold AQo on the previous hand when Durrr and Dario are raising -- yeah, raise and reraise in front makes AQo a standard fold in tournaments, but not in deepstacked cash games against the two most aggro players in the world.

He obviously steams and tilts off way too much and then tries to play a different style than he's used to -- then when he gets coolered/bad beated it's probably wise for him to not rebuy because he's just going to tilt off another $200K. And yes, I think he would get totally killed in any online 6-max game above NL50. FFS if you think the SB is squeezing light, stacking TT on the BTN is totally ***** standard, Phil. (My guess is Adams had a perfect read that Phil did not have QQ+/AK and that he could outplay him on a lot of flops; he did, after all, see him slowplay big hands earlier in the show.)

thanks baudib, finally some sense

phil hellmuth is hands down the most delusional person on the planet.

Can anyone explain Dennis thought process when he had J5 of hearts thx.

It tilts me when people think Phillips won the main event. Even last night Ali said "after having won the main event.." indicating he won the whole thing. Why is this? It's not the first time I hear it said in some poker medium.