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Insight on how this should be handled please bear with me a little long winded but interesting. Insight on how this should be handled please bear with me a little long winded but interesting.

02-10-2012 , 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donk Dunc
It was my first reaction too. But...... it depends on how decent a player (or how drunk) I think this old guy is. If I have him pegged as semi-decent, I might consider it a bluff, and call off my stack, or I might fold the hand and chalk it up as an expensive lesson.

If on the other hand I have him pegged as a particularly good player, I would never call off in this position. He would be expecting you to think of it as a bluff and to call, and so he is getting it all in with arguably a better hand.
If he is particularly good, shouldnt it be pretty difficult for you to know what type of hand he is doing this with? "Particularly good" and "He only gets it in with a better hand" are sort of contradictory.

As for OP, sorry bro, this happens all the time, and its always your fault. Its your action, you need to protect it. Dealers are good, they arent perfect, and this is a difficult thing for them to stop, it happens quickly and they cant control 4 guys' action at the same time. You made a mistake, its a really easy mistake to make (I've made it tons of times), and yeah I'd say if this happened quickly, you should be facing his all-in bet, if it took a long time to get around and seat 9 never said anything, then **** him, his hand is mucked and he is likely an angle-shooter.
Insight on how this should be handled please bear with me a little long winded but interesting. Quote
02-10-2012 , 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dealer-Guy
In the room I work in, seat would not be able to raise but his hand would be live. His options would be call or fold. He should have stopped anyone from folding behind him if he intended to act.

OP admitted he was not paying attention to anyone but the raiser, he screwed up big time.

Dealer screwed up also for not keeping track of the action and failing to stop players from folding OOT.

However, room rules trump everything above if the room rule allows Seat 9 to raise.

It would be a horrible rule but rooms rules are what counts.

I'm guessing that the floor allowed the raise to stand and OP folded to it.

How about telling us what happened OP?
I think a rule allowing him to raise is much better than your rule, it seems like your rule is the worst of both worlds. I see it like you have two choices: either this happened quickly and there was nothing seat 9 could have done to prevent it, so he still has action on him and can do what he wants, or it happened slowly enough that he should have protected his action, so now its too bad, his hand is dead. I dont understand the philosophical justification for your hybrid rule which is that he has action but its limited.
Insight on how this should be handled please bear with me a little long winded but interesting. Quote
02-10-2012 , 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p215j
It played out like a normal hand. 20 seconds is about right. I say raise, slight turn to Seat 6, he sighs, you know the rest. No one was talking it was 5:07a exactly, not much talking that late/early. I found out the time since talking to the casino commission yesterday. Their in the midst of investigating it.
Hope it gets resolved and a player gets banned...

And you take that time to get over yourself.
Insight on how this should be handled please bear with me a little long winded but interesting. Quote
02-10-2012 , 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p215j
Seat 9 was transferred from a broken table with his stack about 90 mins before the hand occurred. In that time he hadn't bet more than $40. I didn't play with him all night as some may think. He clearly angled once he seen my hand & the surprised look on my face then moved all in to steal the pot. It was so obvious the entire table knew. In this case, he didn't have the nuts but an angleshoot & Ace high.
im just busting balls about the nuts comment!

and about tabling a hand i have never once made a mistake for this reason alone! i always make sure 100% i have the pot before any of my cards go face up. it was mixture of things from you the dealer and the players. but if any one of you were paying attention this whole dibockle would have nevered happend. all it took was the dealer, the table or you to notice action and be aware that you were playing poker and you would be several hundred dollars richer. im not sticking it you, dont get the wrong impression. just want to make sure you see my point. its your money your putting at risk so ultimately its your mistake
Insight on how this should be handled please bear with me a little long winded but interesting. Quote
02-10-2012 , 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p215j
It played out like a normal hand. 20 seconds is about right. I say raise, slight turn to Seat 6, he sighs, you know the rest. No one was talking it was 5:07a exactly, not much talking that late/early. I found out the time since talking to the casino commission yesterday. Their in the midst of investigating it.
Investigating what?

You used the information to your advantage and made the correct decision, then got unlucky and lost a pot. If you had won, would you refund his money because he shouldn't have been in the pot? You don't get to freeroll like that. Action offered, action accepted.

Nobody is angling you. You made a series of mistakes and he took advantage of it. That's poker. You brought this upon yourself. There are no "do-overs". What did you want him to do, scream at you not to turn over your hand? Do you want him to hold your dangle for you when you pee?
Insight on how this should be handled please bear with me a little long winded but interesting. Quote
02-11-2012 , 10:44 AM
I'm a bit surprised at the lack of love for the OP which I'm guessing results from the fact that he yelled and swore and generally made a ass of himself. What I take away from this based on having seen similar spots:
- there's about a 90% chance that dealer didn't see/remember that seat 9 was in the hand and hadn't acted or he would have said something
- there's about a 80% chance that villain knowingly allowed people to act behind him to gain an unfair advantage
- there's about a 99% chance that villain knowingly allowed hero to turn up his hand without saying anything in order to gain an unfair advantage

So yeah while OP gets a lot of the blame because none of that prevents him from protecting his hand the dealer and villain get a good amount of blame too. I view this intentionally allowing action behind you as analogous to misdeclaring your hand at showdown. If you act (and sitting silent is an action) in a way to encourage players to act behind you out of turn then you should be penalized. In fact I'm pretty sure that if I came here and said I allowed 3 people to act behind me and a 4th to turn up his hand and floor said my hand was dead everyone would agree with the floor.

OP has a reason to be annoyed at the dealer and the floor decision but that doesn't excuse swearing and yelling at all. If I'm the floor and I hear you calling another player an angleshooting POS you're done for the night.
Insight on how this should be handled please bear with me a little long winded but interesting. Quote
02-11-2012 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p215j
It played out like a normal hand. 20 seconds is about right. I say raise, slight turn to Seat 6, he sighs, you know the rest. No one was talking it was 5:07a exactly, not much talking that late/early. I found out the time since talking to the casino commission yesterday. Their in the midst of investigating it.
This is such crap.

You're going to actually make a case out you not protecting your hand.

Sort of sad really.

Learn to follow the action and protect your hand and not over react when you don't.
Insight on how this should be handled please bear with me a little long winded but interesting. Quote
02-11-2012 , 11:22 PM
Sucks, but mistakes happen. There are some habits I've adopted to reduce the likelihood of situations like this. I know these two suggestions have been posted before, but I'd like to point out that it can become a good habit, something so ingrained I think it is highly unlikely for me to accidentally reveal a hand before showdown or muck a winning hand out of turn:

1. I don't release my cards until the pot is shipped to me. I'm quick, though, so it doesn't slow down the game. I win the hand, I hold my cards in front of me in ready position. Dealer pushes me chips, I'm sending cards and a tip a nanosecond later. This habit saves me if I've missed the fact that another player has to act. No big deal, cards are still in my hand, face down.

2. I don't reveal my hand unless I'm at showdown. This habit eliminates the accidental reveal before action is completed.
Insight on how this should be handled please bear with me a little long winded but interesting. Quote

      
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