yeah good point. we should try to replace bookreaders our in vernacular with wikireaders.

All,

****ing wikireader jerkasses.

I think Tyrion was going to listen to Jamie until they called up Shae and he completely lost it.

There's a 0% chance Jamie fights in the trial. Tywin or Tyrion would never name him (nor would he necessarily accept) and he would be a huge dog vs anyone.

if Tyrion names Jamie it essentially guarantees his freedom as Tywin will then force Cersei to choose some random cupcake as her champion or the Lannister bloodline is donezo

**** just got real...

Tyrion blowup was ****ing EPIC.

Is Tyrion even allowed to pick the king's guard to fight for him?

Youguys seem very concerned about the rules given it's the lannisters. I'm pretty sure Lannisters not giving a **** about rules is one of broadest themes in the show.

Yeah I get the feeling since he's accused of killing the king Tywin or Tommen could bust out all sorts of cavets if they wanted to and get away with them.

We still think the Queen had nothing to do with killing her son. Am I the only one that finds it odd that we are under the impression that she is the one who orchestrated the trial and somehow knows exactly how the assassination went down? How is it that they know about the fool, or that the necklace is poisoned?

I'm no scientist but it seems unlikely that they would test or even have a test to figure out that the necklace is poisoned. It seems more likely that someone setting up the trial knew about the plot before it happened and either let it happen or helped set it in motion. Maybe the Queen wasn't the major player behind setting up Tyion, or maybe the queen let her son, the king, die?

They found the fool's body -- with the necklace on it -- in the middle of the Blackwater Bay, where LF left it for them.

Why would they think to test some piece of jewels for poison?

Tywin explained why he chose Oberyn when he asked him to do it. He wants him on the small council and an alliance with Dorne because were the only ones who stood against the dragons last time they were involved in war.

Because one jewel was missing and another one smashed to pieces. It can be tested by giving it to a rat. Or any number of people other than Cersei could've made sure they found out.

Also Sansa was last seen escaping with the fool and she was likely seen wearing the necklace by many people at the wedding.

Yeah, I thought they mentioned that in last night's episode. Sansa was last seen leaving the wedding with the fool. Also, Sansa is believed to be a top suspect, along with Tyrion.

Probably been linked in these threads before, but lol: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...by-combat.html

haha yeah, someone linked that on facebook the other day. What a guy.

If its the Mountain vs Oberyn im done with this thread for good.

Exactly

Apparently "ham on rye" should watch the show and follow what's going on. Instead of just having a woody for Cersi!

Its truly amazing how some people can't see OBVIOUS stuations right in front of their eyes???

Really don't think it's that big a leap.

Mountain is a Lannister knight, Jamie would be fighting cack handed and would possibly refuse anyway.

Then in Oberyn's first scene he says he wants to take out the Mountain and it was a condition of him sitting in at the trial.

Can anyone remember what Bronn said when he was asked if Shae got on the boat btw? From memory it was evasive.

Agree with one of the posters above that Cersei - she's been fed at least some of the story from somewhere.

What did everyone think of the Varys/Oberyn scene when Varys motioned to the throne at the end? Always had him and LF as behind the scenes players manipulating others. Has he got any plan to rise further or is it just about him being on the winning team?

Something like "as far as I know", implying he put her on the boat and hasn't heard anything to suggest something had gone wrong. Keep in mind this was before Joffrey's death, meaning that if she was kept in KL it must've been arranged by someone who knew Joffrey was going to die.

I found it a bit weird, for the first time I got the feeling he was looking to gain personal power, i.e. the iron throne. He's said the complete opposite to to LF, that he's not interested in the iron throne. Of course he might be playing LF, but I don't see why he'd tell the truth to Oberyn. Interested in others' interpretations of that.

So yea, the Mountain (a person we havent seen from season 1 and is off somewhere far away) is the obvious choice to fight for Cersei just like that.

Then prince Oberyn, a poison wizard, will just choose to fight fair for Tyrion (a Lannister) against literally a mountain of a man instead of poisoning, torturing him? In his current position he can just ask Tywin to bring him his head (is anyone gonna argue Tywin can't/won't do that?).

Then we have Tywin who doesnt really want Tyrion killed, just out of the way. He also wants an alliance with Oberyn and his family. Is he really gonna let the Mountain fight Oberyn? What for? Having a chance both Tyrion and Oberyn die? It doesnt make sense even if you factor in Jaime's proposition. Why would he put Tyrion in danger when Jaime already accepted his requests?
Why would he put Oberyn in danger when he wants him for an ally and could easily provide the Mountain's head in order to form an alliance? Also...isnt his grand daughter in Dorne? How would he make an alliance when both Oberyn and his sister are killed by the same person? Makes no sense.

That scene and the line in the trial - sadly, I remember everything (or close to that - I clearly don't remember everything) were both interesting.

Don't think Shae being held means her captors knew about the plot. One of Cersei's (I think) spies had cottoned on, that's why Tyrion was trying to get her out of KL.

You're forgetting that The Mountain has been recast for this season and he hasn't appeared yet (it's been ruled ITT that casting news for the show is not considered a spoiler). What else would they show him for at this point in the season? Also it may not be up to Tywin - Cersei may be the one who gets to choose. And her hatred for Tyrion runs so deep that she may ignore her father's wishes in this matter. And of course Oberyn will jump at the chance to fight The Mountain if the opportunity presents itself. He has vengeance fever.

It's the most likely matchup IMO, but I'm really hoping for the Jamie fights for Tyrion play - it'd be such a mind **** on Tywin.

He's talked about a lot and when he's talked about he's portrayed as the baddest mother****er the Lannisters have and what seems like an obvious pick for an occassion like this. Surely this can't possibly puzzle you.

He's not a "poison wizard" he's just studied poison and in Westeros poison is considered a woman's weapon. What is known though is that Oberyn is one of the baddest mother****ers in Westeros and he wants revenge on The Mountain. That's kind of the reason he's been pissy with the Lannisters all season. Surely this can't puzzle you either.

The question is whether Tywin expects Oberyn to step in (maybe he should?) and whether he has anything against Oberyn stepping in (not sure). Tywin has promised Oberyn revenge on The Mountain or he can kiss that ally good bye and Oberyn WANTS this, so it does make sense. It can happen in a lot of different ways: Tywin not realizing, Tywin thinking a Oberyn vs The Mountain fight is ok, Cersei gets to chose, Oberyn pressuring him to make the fight happen etc.

Two things other things:

1) Tyrion has chosen to put his life in danger which means Jaime's proposition is off the table, that's not up to Tywin at this point.
2) What makes you think Tywin cares about Tyrion? My guess would be he doesn't care much whether Tyrion lives or dies at this point.

That's a fair point. I don't think it necessarily implicates Bronn but it's possible. I wouldn't trust any sellsword to be loyal.