Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
***OFFICIAL Stars 2015 MTT Discussion Thread*** ***OFFICIAL Stars 2015 MTT Discussion Thread***

09-16-2015 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaKing
A couple points about current blind structures:

Is there a reason why the Hots don't use the same exact blind levels as the Bigs but with 5 minute per levels instead of 10 minutes? The way it is now if you match up the bb200 levels Between Bigs, Hots, and Hypers, once you hit bb10K for the Hots the % difference between the blind levels between Hots and Hypers is smaller than between Hots and Bigs (aside from 14K/40K/120K). When the Hot55 reaches bb30K the Big55 is at bb10K but the SuperSonic is only at bb80K, not bb90K. Hots should be Bigs with blinds that increase twice as fast, not slower Hypers with 5 minute levels and a few extra levels thrown in.

Also the 2K > 2.4 > 2.8 > 3.2 > 3.6 > 4 > 4.8 > 5.6 > 6.4 > 7.2 > 8 > 9 > 10K (5x increase in 2 hours) increment gets sped up to 20 > 25 > 30 > 35 > 40 > 50 > 60 > 70 > 80 > 100K (5x increase in 90 mins).

Could this be switched to 2K > 2.5 > 3 > 3.5 > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 > 10K (5x increase in 90 mins) and 20K > 24 > 28 > 32 > 36 > 40 > 48 > 56 > 64 > 72 > 80 > 90 > 100K (5x increase in 2 hours)?

You would still reach bb100K after 8 hours of play and I don't think anyone would complain about playing the earlier levels more quickly in favor of having more play when they get deeper, albeit having 12 steps to get between both 2K/10K and 20K/100K would be best.
Luke, this was quoted 3 times in pretty quick succession a few pages back so I doubt there is any way you missed it while browsing the thread, can you please address it? Thanks.
09-16-2015 , 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Luke

It seems most of them were changed aside from the Storm. I will change it from $6,000 to $5,500 since 2% of the guarantee is our standard. I highly doubt any players have noticed this minor oversight!
I don't think this is a good formula. Since it is applied linearly regardless of the percentage of the prizepool awarded to first place.

For example next weeks WCOOP ST SE 1.5mill awards 17% to first place (I got this number by finding the award structure for if the guarantee was exactly met) where as the storm only awards 9.35% to first using the same method. Obviously the 2% kept behind has a vastly different effect in each case. 1/10th - 1/8th of projected first place might be a more reasonable solution.
09-17-2015 , 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Luke
And yes, the Sunday Million will have some new satellites soon. Any suggestions will be considered!
Luke, the Sunday Progressive KO Omahas (NLO8 and PLO) could really use a much better set of satellites. There are literally 5-6 boring $11 turbo satellites raked at the traditional 10%.

Adding a Guarantee Boost label to them last week does not address the fact that these are not the most effective satellites for the target tournament.

Please add some variety so that players of all buyins can play. Some suggestions:
-50 FPP 3x turbo rebuy
-$2.50 3x turbo rebuy
-$5.50 2x turbo rebuy
-$5.50 Mega Satellite (20 seats guaranteed) turbo with 3k starting stack and scheduled to finish within in the first 3 levels of the target tournament
-$7.50 Deep Turbo
-$27 Deep Hyper

A combination of these would give you guys the ability to see these games grow organically, whereas right now the # of players winning via satellites are extremely low due to $11 price point not appealing to all potential players.
09-17-2015 , 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahm8
Luke, can you please consider changing the $4.40 freezeout at 9pm EST to 10 minute levels instead of 8?
While you are at it, change like every non turbo torny this buy in or lower to 12-15 minute blind level.
09-18-2015 , 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watermolonz
Would like to see some $20 1 re-entry non turbos pls (SM sats)
The current plan is to run an $11 Monday-Saturday at 14:30. Monday-Friday would have a 10 seat guarantee while Saturday will stay pink and have a 40 seat guarantee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anuj22
"XXX+ for first!" will have more impact on tourneys which get <100 players as I said earlier. You should try this on daily, weekly tourneys. You can have them both mentioned, gtd and first prize of the tourney as well
Which of the Daily $27s would you say is most suitable? 8-Game and HORSE both have $2K guarantees and therefore may be the best options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bridler
You have probably not received any notifications of player complaints from support with the current sunday mill offering but have decided to make negative payout structure changes anyway, but if your own ideas receive no complaints they will stay in place.

cool
What I was saying is that I haven't received any complaints from Support regarding the recent changes to satellite remainder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G
This x 1000.

Luke if you can come up with a new format that doesn't increase Pstars margins I'm 100% all for it. But you won't.

The "need" to change SM sat offerings is 100% about margins. If you want to improve the players experience as you will claim that this is the motivation... how about cleaning up the games 1st. + more recs will win then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G
They need to revamp the satellite offerings for a lot of their big tourneys and stop worrying about how to eek out maximum revenue from satellites when it can end up costing them in the actual MTT through overlay.

The Sunday Million with an efficient satellite program could get an extra 1k runners every week.
I'm genuinely unsure how I am to reconcile these two posts.

I should probably clarify that the most popular formats of satellites are staying, just as they did for the Warm-Up, Storm, etc. The biggest current planned change is to the Mega-Path. It is planned to have less rounds (3) and a guarantee of 25 seats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahm8
Luke, can you please consider changing the $4.40 freezeout at 9pm EST to 10 minute levels instead of 8?
Done beginning Monday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaKing
Luke, this was quoted 3 times in pretty quick succession a few pages back so I doubt there is any way you missed it while browsing the thread, can you please address it? Thanks.
There is no reason the Hots do not use the same blind levels as the Bigs, just the same as there is no reason the Sunday Storm and Sunday Million do not use the same structures. At this point, the Bigs and Hots are well-established tournament experiences, so any changes to the structures would have to be for particularly compelling reasons.

I’m open to feedback and suggestions on structures. Please just remember that there is not an objectively “correct” structure for a given tournament; there are merely different preferences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gollyheck
I don't think this is a good formula. Since it is applied linearly regardless of the percentage of the prizepool awarded to first place.

For example next weeks WCOOP ST SE 1.5mill awards 17% to first place (I got this number by finding the award structure for if the guarantee was exactly met) where as the storm only awards 9.35% to first using the same method. Obviously the 2% kept behind has a vastly different effect in each case. 1/10th - 1/8th of projected first place might be a more reasonable solution.
You make good points here. I believe the 2% number was introduced somewhat arbitrarily. I’ll look at this more closely as time permits. In the meantime, I've reduced the Sunday Storm set aside to $4,000 for now. I hope you feel this is a fair solution!

Quote:
Originally Posted by broken_jia
Luke, the Sunday Progressive KO Omahas (NLO8 and PLO) could really use a much better set of satellites. There are literally 5-6 boring $11 turbo satellites raked at the traditional 10%.

Adding a Guarantee Boost label to them last week does not address the fact that these are not the most effective satellites for the target tournament.

Please add some variety so that players of all buyins can play. Some suggestions:
-50 FPP 3x turbo rebuy
-$2.50 3x turbo rebuy
-$5.50 2x turbo rebuy
-$5.50 Mega Satellite (20 seats guaranteed) turbo with 3k starting stack and scheduled to finish within in the first 3 levels of the target tournament
-$7.50 Deep Turbo
-$27 Deep Hyper

A combination of these would give you guys the ability to see these games grow organically, whereas right now the # of players winning via satellites are extremely low due to $11 price point not appealing to all potential players.
The guarantee changes were certainly much more of a band-aid than a permanent fix. I'm happy to give a couple new formats a try beginning next weekend (likely deep turbo), but I do not think there is enough demand or prestige to warrant these tournaments having a bold pink mega-satellite.
09-18-2015 , 12:57 PM
Luke I repeat once again something has been mentioned many many times.

The 11:00 - 12:00 is very poor regarding mtt offerings. From 10-11 u have at least 3 good tourneys: h33, b75 and the smaller but nice 265ko.

A Big or Hot for mid-high stakes is def needed at 11 or 11.30
09-18-2015 , 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Luke
Which of the Daily $27s would you say is most suitable? 8-Game and HORSE both have $2K guarantees and therefore may be the best options.
After doing my own detailed analysis on this(though I don't play either of them), I found that there are other factors also to consider which I didn't think of before. One is setting their first prize which can become tricky.

Let take 8-Game's case. This tourney has got $2k gtd which means 82 expected min entrants, now for 82 entrants, first prize would have been approx $548, but many times this tourney has got its first prize close to $700-800 but at times it has also gotten close to $580-595(very recently), so we put a $500+ for first! label on this. Now the question is, will this label along with the $2k gtd mention, help you bring new players? I'd say 50/50 but at the same time I don't think having this label would do any harm to this tourney.

Tbh, when I first thought of "XXX for first!" label, I thought this label would help the $5.50 NL Single Draw 2-7(turbo), $200 gtd the most. How? This tourney is a re-entry and pays many places/very flat payout structure and its first prize often gets on avg $84-105, sometimes $74-84 when it gets affected by bubble effect, and also sometimes it gets more than $105+. But if you put a $100+ for first! label on this tourney, this would have a huge psychological advantage and will make players register after seeing the 3 digit first prize gtd. BUT before doing that you must fix its payout structure, I have posted this so many times, as of now this tourney pays 14-20% which makes it so vulnerable to bubble effect and this doesn't let tourney grow because of early close of late registration, I know your programmers are working to fix this problem but even then this tourney's payout structure need to be looked at. Please replace its payout structure with $4.40 PL Omaha at 11:35 ET - the one which pays 11.7-12.5%
09-19-2015 , 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPH
Luke I repeat once again something has been mentioned many many times.

The 11:00 - 12:00 is very poor regarding mtt offerings. From 10-11 u have at least 3 good tourneys: h33, b75 and the smaller but nice 265ko.

A Big or Hot for mid-high stakes is def needed at 11 or 11.30
agree with this
09-19-2015 , 12:40 PM
Was about to load a satty earlier , noticed EPT_MALTA , EPT_MALTA[2] in the lobby on the same table (no this was not a re-entry tourney) from two different countries.

Both open limping with brand new accounts, another bot concern?

I cant upload the screenshot but posted the link below.

https://gyazo.com/65cfd0d8805edb8d915e455dd1727d8d

Last edited by H0LDiT; 09-19-2015 at 12:47 PM.
09-19-2015 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Luke
There is no reason the Hots do not use the same blind levels as the Bigs, just the same as there is no reason the Sunday Storm and Sunday Million do not use the same structures. At this point, the Bigs and Hots are well-established tournament experiences, so any changes to the structures would have to be for particularly compelling reasons.

I’m open to feedback and suggestions on structures. Please just remember that there is not an objectively “correct” structure for a given tournament; there are merely different preferences.
But I'm guessing the Hot's tournament experience isn't well-established enough to stop lowering their guarantees? Also did I just read it correctly that you said there is no reason Stars uses the current structure(s), but you that would need a compelling reason to change them? Personally I feel that with dwindling field sizes and guarantees I the red turbo experience is not the same as it once was with less time spending playing on average per game and that adding in the missing levels would augment the red turbo tournament experience in a positive way. I don't think I need to point out that I am certainly not the only one who feels this way and that the overwhelming majority of players agree.

Like you said, not all games of the same format have to have the exact same structure, I think adding in the extra levels for red turbos and leaving other turbos as they are would be a welcome change by nearly everyone. As edges keep getting smaller and smaller and rake stays the same, players are losing the incentive to fire off certain games where they are likely break-even at best, specifically games with faster than regular speed blind levels...
09-19-2015 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaKing
But I'm guessing the Hot's tournament experience isn't well-established enough to stop lowering their guarantees? Also did I just read it correctly that you said there is no reason Stars uses the current structure(s), but you that would need a compelling reason to change them? Personally I feel that with dwindling field sizes and guarantees I the red turbo experience is not the same as it once was with less time spending playing on average per game and that adding in the missing levels would augment the red turbo tournament experience in a positive way. I don't think I need to point out that I am certainly not the only one who feels this way and that the overwhelming majority of players agree.

Like you said, not all games of the same format have to have the exact same structure, I think adding in the extra levels for red turbos and leaving other turbos as they are would be a welcome change by nearly everyone. As edges keep getting smaller and smaller and rake stays the same, players are losing the incentive to fire off certain games where they are likely break-even at best, specifically games with faster than regular speed blind levels...

Agreed, very well said.
09-20-2015 , 06:17 AM
Luke, seems you have a problem with sattys for the 2.1k SM
http://prntscr.com/8iduod

When looking for them in the SM Lobby they appear as a 82$ but when clicking they are in fact 55+r.
09-20-2015 , 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anuj22
After doing my own detailed analysis on this(though I don't play either of them), I found that there are other factors also to consider which I didn't think of before. One is setting their first prize which can become tricky.

Let take 8-Game's case. This tourney has got $2k gtd which means 82 expected min entrants, now for 82 entrants, first prize would have been approx $548, but many times this tourney has got its first prize close to $700-800 but at times it has also gotten close to $580-595(very recently), so we put a $500+ for first! label on this. Now the question is, will this label along with the $2k gtd mention, help you bring new players? I'd say 50/50 but at the same time I don't think having this label would do any harm to this tourney.

Tbh, when I first thought of "XXX for first!" label, I thought this label would help the $5.50 NL Single Draw 2-7(turbo), $200 gtd the most. How? This tourney is a re-entry and pays many places/very flat payout structure and its first prize often gets on avg $84-105, sometimes $74-84 when it gets affected by bubble effect, and also sometimes it gets more than $105+. But if you put a $100+ for first! label on this tourney, this would have a huge psychological advantage and will make players register after seeing the 3 digit first prize gtd. BUT before doing that you must fix its payout structure, I have posted this so many times, as of now this tourney pays 14-20% which makes it so vulnerable to bubble effect and this doesn't let tourney grow because of early close of late registration, I know your programmers are working to fix this problem but even then this tourney's payout structure need to be looked at. Please replace its payout structure with $4.40 PL Omaha at 11:35 ET - the one which pays 11.7-12.5%
Agree to all of this.

Ive played a lot of these 27 $ Dailys and stopped playing them, because of the Blindstructure in the Lategame.
Please take a look at the Final Tables of these Tournaments especially Razz, 5 Card Draw and all Limit Dailys.

Thats the main reason why most players stopped playing these MTTs.
For example take a look at the 5 Card Draw Daily. There are like 30-40 Regulars on Pokerstars who play 5 Card Draw each day and like 80 % of them stopped playing the Daily because of its Bingo Sturcture lategame, because you are foced to push a weak Hand all in to get not eaten by the Blinds and once you get called your nearly busted because of 5 CDs math.

Fix the Blindstructure and all of them will grow very fast..
All Mixed games need a slower Structure..
Add some more Blindlevels in the Lategame or make it a slower Blindincrease from 12 minutes to 15 to 20..

Well if you dont fix the Structure there you could also remove them, because everyone who plays them will realize that issue earlier or later.
09-20-2015 , 01:39 PM
Though I was talking about the payout structure in that post, but I def agree with you, Daily 27 nl 2-7sd blind structure is too shallow, its shove fest and so ***** unplayable but they don't realise it. If they fix their structure, I'd play more often. Please add 25/50 , 50/100, 125/250, 350/700, 700/1400 etc.
09-20-2015 , 01:58 PM
Why all these horrible lags again?
09-21-2015 , 02:21 PM
16k people observin 51K$ FT. That's too much for the servers.

keep in mind, the ~200k players on stars usually represent 9k player multitabling.
09-21-2015 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhrenknecht
16k people observin 51K$ FT. That's too much for the servers.

keep in mind, the ~200k players on stars usually represent 9k player multitabling.
I'm not getting any lag.
09-22-2015 , 03:03 PM
From 1700 utc+2 to 2300 we have 4bigs .For those who are skipping the 2k what else do we have to play which is slow ?We definately need more bigs hots at least .that schedule is shame
09-22-2015 , 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Luke
I am interested in making changes that positively affect the overall player base. The Big $215 is not an example of a change that will motivate the hundreds of thousands of micro to mid-stakes players not reading this thread. That is why I have focused on changes such as the Sunday Storm satellite system and upcoming changes to the Sunday Million satellite system.
This seems pretty bad approach. Everyone who plays is your customer and you should care both about existing and new customers. Low and high buy-in players.

Yes, Big215 might not motivate someone start playing, but it will make happy your existing customers which should be pretty important considering how much money they leave in rake.

In restaurant business no one would get away with saying "oh, you are regular guest here, but **** you, we will give couple of wines to taste and special discount to someone who might come and eat here".

You should care about what Rounder63 wants as well as someone who just turned 18 and might hear about poker from his classmates. Not making excuses about some mythical "overall player base".

I don't suggest introducing every tournament that regs are asking for, but there are loads of suggestions that are approved by multiple people that seem really reasonable.

Cheers and hope you keep improving on both communication here and improvements in schedules/structures to make your customers happy.
09-22-2015 , 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speck CHAMP
Agree to all of this.

Ive played a lot of these 27 $ Dailys and stopped playing them, because of the Blindstructure in the Lategame.
Please take a look at the Final Tables of these Tournaments especially Razz, 5 Card Draw and all Limit Dailys.

Thats the main reason why most players stopped playing these MTTs.
For example take a look at the 5 Card Draw Daily. There are like 30-40 Regulars on Pokerstars who play 5 Card Draw each day and like 80 % of them stopped playing the Daily because of its Bingo Sturcture lategame, because you are foced to push a weak Hand all in to get not eaten by the Blinds and once you get called your nearly busted because of 5 CDs math.

Fix the Blindstructure and all of them will grow very fast..
All Mixed games need a slower Structure..
Add some more Blindlevels in the Lategame or make it a slower Blindincrease from 12 minutes to 15 to 20..

Well if you dont fix the Structure there you could also remove them, because everyone who plays them will realize that issue earlier or later.
Agree with anuj and Speck, I rarely play them due to terrible late game structure too. Know a couple others in same vote. Also on that note, it has been talked about before several times, but change the schedule of the dailies and weeklies. Early games like Badugi have high interest when they do run, but due to the early start at times it doesnt get the min runners required to start it. If you look at the sat and cash game numbers for both those games you'll see the demand is there.
09-22-2015 , 06:48 PM
Big 215 would appeal a lot more recs then the big 162 since it's the same buy in as the Milly, people who work in some countries can't play the Milly if they work Mondays,

Perhaps a Saturday 215 half million could be an idea
09-22-2015 , 07:08 PM
No Sunday Million now for the third ****ing week in a row? I can't afford to play the WCOOP and the milly is my one big tournament that I look forward to every week. This is very distressing.
09-22-2015 , 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoakMyDee
No Sunday Million now for the third ****ing week in a row? I can't afford to play the WCOOP and the milly is my one big tournament that I look forward to every week. This is very distressing.
this...i understand not having it last week with the $700 wcoop, but i cant see how it would take anything away from the $2100, or the $5200 main

maybe i'm wrong though
09-22-2015 , 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoakMyDee
No Sunday Million now for the third ****ing week in a row? I can't afford to play the WCOOP and the milly is my one big tournament that I look forward to every week. This is very distressing.
$215 with a milli guarantee? Try the Warm up!
09-22-2015 , 10:06 PM
Can we please get T500 in the late 11 cubed?

T500 for all 180s and 15 second time bank added at all FTs of 180s!!

      
m