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***** Official SSSHLHE Stats Thread ***** ***** Official SSSHLHE Stats Thread *****

02-23-2010 , 03:50 AM




Don't be shy, don't be nice. I know the sample size is a little small, but I want to know if I'm in the right ballpark. My guess is that my blind defense is wrong ( lower PFR is partly because I never reraise headsup in the big blind when out of position) and my post flop play poor.
02-23-2010 , 04:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monito Loco
Don't be shy, don't be nice. I know the sample size is a little small, but I want to know if I'm in the right ballpark. My guess is that my blind defense is wrong ( lower PFR is partly because I never reraise headsup in the big blind when out of position) and my post flop play poor.
Your BB aggression is a bit to low. You PFR at that position is also way too low. You should 3bet more, especially in steal situations.

Otherwise, you are surely running a little bit cold. Your won@SD is a bit small considering your vp$ip/WTS.
02-23-2010 , 04:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monito Loco
Don't be shy, don't be nice. I know the sample size is a little small, but I want to know if I'm in the right ballpark. My guess is that my blind defense is wrong ( lower PFR is partly because I never reraise headsup in the big blind when out of position) and my post flop play poor.
Those stats look fine to me.

Maybe you could showdown hands a bit more. Seems to me that your aggression factor is also a tad high, but I don't know if it's a problem or not. But if you showdown more hands, I guess AF goes down as a result too. I would guess most lagtags have AF below 2.
02-23-2010 , 05:41 AM
-Monito your SB vpip seems way high to me. W$SD and loss rate are both really bad out of the SB too which is indicative of either me being right and you are playing too loose/sloppy there or you are running really bad from that spot.
02-23-2010 , 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerMes
-Monito your SB vpip seems way high to me. W$SD and loss rate are both really bad out of the SB too which is indicative of either me being right and you are playing too loose/sloppy there or you are running really bad from that spot.
I think I have been completing too many trash hands in the SB, and I just recently stopped calling raises there with some medium strength hands (QJs, 76s, KQo) that were better being 3 bet or folded.
02-23-2010 , 08:34 PM
I'm curious if this is run bad or I am showing down too much. Also I'm having trouble deciding when to turn barrel and even river barrel. I've looked for some links on it but hard to find. Any help there would be appreciated.

02-24-2010 , 03:27 AM
Reaper, that looks like a case of poor positional awareness pre-flop to me. You shouldn't be playing the same UTG/HJ and CO/BTN but you have almost the same stats. Off the top of my head, it should looks more like UTG - 18, HJ - 23, CO - 30, Btn - 37, SB - 40, BB - 45 VPIP or so at these stakes. Your fold BB to steal is way too high... get it way under 40 imo. I am also guessing you don't steal anywhere near enough... get to at least 45% imo. You can also 3bet more... get it into the 12-13% range by 3betting more in position and when defending your SB/Btn. And go from there.

I wouldn't worry too much about WTSD since you are in the normal range. Just keep trying to play well post-flop and it will land where it lands. Your cbetting and aggression numbers look fine, so I would worry about the pre-flop leaks for now.
02-24-2010 , 04:17 AM
hmm I've been using the preflop chart that Leader posted, is that no good anymore? I'll look at where I can improve for 3betting though, I'm thinking that I probably haven't done that enough. If you are suggesting 3betting more, defending more and stealing more what is my Vpip/pfr gonna look like? 25/19 is too nitty?
02-24-2010 , 04:59 PM
I think Leader's chart is fine for people just learning default raising ranges. But as you will learn more when you get more experience, there are more profitable hands you can add to your late position raising range.

I just added Unguarded's positional Vpip and found the mean to be 32.17%, which if i can recall accurately is his Vpip that he evolved into when he got to 2/4+ stakes. If you're stealing from the button more like he suggested (45%), then your stats would look like 32/23-32/25 which is a very LAG playing style that you should only practice if you have excellent postflop skills as you will be put in a lot more marginal situations than you are used to. Beware though, that .5-1. has a pretty high rake BB/100. I think it's like 3.25BB/100 hands. It can be argued that it's not wise to steal that much because of the raketrap; on the other hand, others will say that due to the suckiness of the players at the stake it equals out in the longrun. It really depends on your ability to play after the flop.

Also, i do not think 25/19 is too nitty for that stakes. Nitty is like 21/15 or something like that. There are very good players there that play as 23/17. I'd say it's the average stats of a tight aggressive player.
02-24-2010 , 05:32 PM
Is a turnCbet% in HEM of 75.4% within a reasonable range? I'm 31/20/ AF 50 overall w flopCbet of 96.9%
02-24-2010 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper6788
hmm I've been using the preflop chart that Leader posted, is that no good anymore? I'll look at where I can improve for 3betting though, I'm thinking that I probably haven't done that enough. If you are suggesting 3betting more, defending more and stealing more what is my Vpip/pfr gonna look like? 25/19 is too nitty?
You would end up 30/20+. Leader's chart doesn't tell you how to steal and defend blinds properly... it is simply training wheels for people who don't know what to open pre-flop. Get the Stox book (a little too tight imo but you need to learn to play around the blinds and it goes into great detail)... super ghetto to be using Leader's chart imo and everyone needs to read that book. 25/19 sucks, but don't just shoot for certain numbers. Focus on learning as much as you can about how to play well pre, and your stats will look good in the end.

Distajo, I played 250k hands of 1/2 last year and everything below. 30/20+ is good, just your tagfish opponents don't know how to do it properly. The stats I suggested are tighter than what I would play. 25/19 sucks. But it's not just the 25/19, it's the way he does it that is so bad.

Last edited by Unguarded; 02-24-2010 at 06:10 PM.
02-24-2010 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaddy
Is a turnCbet% in HEM of 75.4% within a reasonable range? I'm 31/20/ AF 50 overall w flopCbet of 96.9%
yea i think thats a pretty normal turn contbet%
mine is at ~70%, which I suspect is a little lower than most my opponents
02-24-2010 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unguarded
You would end up 30/20+. Leader's chart doesn't tell you how to steal and defend blinds properly... it is simply training wheels for people who don't know what to open pre-flop. Get the Stox book (a little too tight imo but you need to learn to play around the blinds and it goes into great detail)... super ghetto to be using Leader's chart imo and everyone needs to read that book. 25/19 sucks, but don't just shoot for certain numbers. Focus on learning as much as you can about how to play well pre, and your stats will look good in the end.
I have WITHG and skimmed through it once but I haven't looked at it in enough detail. Even though I feel my blind play isn't very good. I'll resolve to re-read it and take notes this week (along with the 1,000 or so pages of reading I need to do for my senior thesis >_<).

What do I need to keep in mind about the level I'm playing at when I'm reading WITHG? My only concern is it seems to be tailored to much tougher games and there are adjustments I should probably make for the loose passive players.
02-24-2010 , 06:21 PM
Reaper, don't worry about the differences in stakes. Just learn as much from the book as you can. If you want to learn the best way to beat up loose-passives, post some hands on the subject. But that book will quickly get you to a pro level pre-flop and will open your eyes post-flop. The pre-flop play in the book will get you something like 26/18-28/19, and you can go from there. That book is worth reading 10 times... I'm sure I have hehe. You're always going to feel confused and you're never going to get all the answers in one place.
02-24-2010 , 06:49 PM
Have just started to use PT3 along with HEM.
I jammed my PT3 database full of old hands and immediately found out that I have totally missed that there are differences between how the two programs calculate stats.

Apparently I'm no nit anymore since PT3 says that I fold my BB 36% while the same figure in HEM is much higher. The AFq 57 in PT3 shows that I'm much more aggressive than implied by HEM:s Agg%.

I guess that the BB difference has to do with how the programs registers defending against a raise and a 3-bet.
But what are the difference between AFq and Agg%?

I also wonder if someone uses Table Tracker and what they think about it? Since I play all networks I'm fed up with having to use different apps. to find fish.

I'm aware that these are software questions but I really want some 6-max SLHE players to answer instead of any infidels.
02-24-2010 , 08:12 PM
Apanage....boc and I were having this discussion and he thought Agg% in HEM was same as AFq in PT3. How far are they off?
02-24-2010 , 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaddy
Apanage....boc and I were having this discussion and he thought Agg% in HEM was same as AFq in PT3. How far are they off?
I don't know since I haven't got anymore than 2/5 th (over 1 million hands takes its tribute)of my hands into PT3 yet. But it seems like a 4-6 % difference so far.
02-24-2010 , 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apanage
Have just started to use PT3 along with HEM.
I jammed my PT3 database full of old hands and immediately found out that I have totally missed that there are differences between how the two programs calculate stats.

Apparently I'm no nit anymore since PT3 says that I fold my BB 36% while the same figure in HEM is much higher. The AFq 57 in PT3 shows that I'm much more aggressive than implied by HEM:s Agg%.

I guess that the BB difference has to do with how the programs registers defending against a raise and a 3-bet.
But what are the difference between AFq and Agg%?

I also wonder if someone uses Table Tracker and what they think about it? Since I play all networks I'm fed up with having to use different apps. to find fish.

I'm aware that these are software questions but I really want some 6-max SLHE players to answer instead of any infidels.
see my post 1689 ITT for likely BB defend explanation. HEM defines a steal opportunity as an unopened pot, so 1 or more limpers to CO/BTN/SB is a steal opportunity so your steal % is lower than you'd expect if steal were defined as folded to hero (which it s/b IMO). Presumably BB defense works the same way, 1 or 2 limps and a SB raise if you fold your BB you folded to a steal attempt according to HEM.
02-25-2010 , 04:51 AM
met my quota early today so I quit playing...


tell me those don't look standard and what i'm doing seriously wrong please.
02-25-2010 , 05:33 AM
Preflop: your vpip is fine. But you should increase your PFR and 3bet.

I think you are too passive post flop. Also, you are auto-contibetting too much on the turn. 95% turn Cbet is too high.

wait a minute :
[] samplesize
02-25-2010 , 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlivLu
wait a minute :
[] samplesize
That was just stats from today...I was hoping for someone to say I went to showdown low and won at showdown low...must be running bad...but I don't think that's the case..

here's my 32K hands at this particular level


too low WTSD?

here's the other stats that are on there by default

Last edited by EscapeTheF8; 02-25-2010 at 06:27 AM.
02-25-2010 , 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shuinthehouse
see my post 1689 ITT for likely BB defend explanation. HEM defines a steal opportunity as an unopened pot, so 1 or more limpers to CO/BTN/SB is a steal opportunity so your steal % is lower than you'd expect if steal were defined as folded to hero (which it s/b IMO). Presumably BB defense works the same way, 1 or 2 limps and a SB raise if you fold your BB you folded to a steal attempt according to HEM.
I'm very tired just now. But that can't be right can it.
Because then my fold BB to steal in HEM would be much lower than in PT3. And for me it is the other way around.

I'm also pretty sure that HEM:s definition of an unopened pot is the same as ours. Which means that it is only a steal opportunity if no one has put money in the pot before we raise.
I have a steal% of 48-50% from button. There is no way that I can have that if they include limped pots before I raise.
02-25-2010 , 03:53 PM
Apanage - it is right, and I posted in the HEM forum about it. They responded the stat I want is 'raised first in', which unfortunately is only available in the HUD, not in the reports. And you can't filter for it, because there is no filter for 'no limpers', only 'unopened' or 'x limpers'.

It's a small impact in 6m b/c there are so few open limped pots, but I've been playing FR rush, and could not figure out why my SB steal was so low. The HEM steal stat definition specifically says when hand is "unopened" , not folded, to hero. I checked some hands where HEM says I stole and sure enough found some where there were limpers before.

The most dramatic impact is on SB steal, I'm opening 65ish percent if it's folded to me, but playing maybe 20-30% if it's there are 1+ limpers to me, so my SB steal per HEM is like 38% for FR rush.

Easiest way to test: Set the filter position to SB, action unopened, then delect all hole cards except something you would always steal with in the SB, but fold if there were a limper, e.g. Q8o.

For me this gives 3 hands, I raised 2x and folded once because there was a limper, but my steal % shows as 67%, where I would expect it to be 100% as I don't consider it a steal opportunity if someone has limped.
02-25-2010 , 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shuinthehouse
Apanage - it is right, and I posted in the HEM forum about it. They responded the stat I want is 'raised first in', which unfortunately is only available in the HUD, not in the reports. And you can't filter for it, because there is no filter for 'no limpers', only 'unopened' or 'x limpers'.
Somewhere on the line there must have been some misunderstanding between you and HEM.

Test this:

1) Go to the main filter in HEM
2) Mark your position as Small Blind
3) Mark the boxes 1 limper and 2+ limpers in the preflop action facing player.
4) Go to filter by actions. Mark the box Filter by Preflop actions and choose Raise in the table.

Now you have filtered every time you raised from SB with limpers ahead of you.

When I do this in HEM the report shows n/a under steal Pct as it should.
When someone limps the pot it is by definition opened.

EDIT:

This doesn't mean that what you say about the Q8 hands isn't true. But it shows that if you raise from SB with limpers ahead you haven't made a steal attempt.

Last edited by Apanage; 02-25-2010 at 06:50 PM.
02-26-2010 , 02:50 PM
Finally sitting down to do some stat analysis and comparisons to others that have posted here in the last few months. There are a number of places that I differ from some of you, but one thing really looked odd to me and it was in the big blind. 15,000 hand sample size from this month at .50/1.00

Big Blind Stats Only for 6-max
VPIP 34.96
PFR 5.74
3bet% 5.08
FBBTS 40.64

Am I just a passive fish in my big blind? I fold the big blind a little too much, but it looks like I just call a raise and never 3 bet unless I have a top 5% hand. I realize a lot of these pots at .50/1.00 are multi-way, but this still has to be a huge leak. Can you guys post your stats from the big blind as a comparison? Thanks!!!

      
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