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View Poll Results: 18 man final table approximates closely to 9 man STT?
Yes
235 34.92%
No
413 61.37%
Other (post comment)
25 3.71%

08-29-2010 , 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopoRific
Wherein I try to answer my own question.

Spoiler:
Playing with the hand in SnGWiz, villain would need to fold to my shove about 30% of the time to be profitable. If blinds were 1k/2k/200, shoving should be correct, but I doubt I'd have that much FE at 1.5k/3k/300
Yea with only 10 bigs I doubt you have much FE if any.
08-30-2010 , 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Rob Jr.
Wiz says both are folds. I'd def fold the AJ hand, but I'd think about the QJs hand. I don't have any experience at 3.25's, so I just used average call ranges.
Average call ranges you mean default? Why fold with an M of 4 when the blinds are about to hit you with AJ?

I don't know I initially thought shoving both. But I guess I need to play tighter in EP, I don't know. Surprised both are folds.
08-30-2010 , 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedarknight
Average call ranges you mean default? Why fold with an M of 4 when the blinds are about to hit you with AJ?

I don't know I initially thought shoving both. But I guess I need to play tighter in EP, I don't know. Surprised both are folds.
I shove too much, but think AJ is still a fold. We are 4/8 on the bubble with a workable stack
08-31-2010 , 11:18 AM
Here are some hands I wasn't entirely sure from last night.
Hands 1-3 from 45 man FTP.
Hands 4 and 5 from 90 man FTP KO.


Hand #1
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t250/t500 Blinds - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t6950 13.90 BBs
SB: t1430 2.86 BBs
BB: t5375 10.75 BBs
Hero (UTG): t15103 30.21 BBs
MP: t7517 15.03 BBs
CO: t4000 8 BBs

Pre Flop: (t750) Hero is UTG with Q K
Hero raises to t1155, MP calls t1155, 3 folds, BB raises to t4870, Hero ?


Getting down to the final table, def feeling squeezed here, I am chipleader with around 12 to go, I am at best flipping with KQ.


Hand #2
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t60/t120 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: t3050 25.42 BBs
CO: t1170 9.75 BBs
BTN: t4080 34 BBs
SB: t2435 20.29 BBs
Hero (BB): t1805 15.04 BBs
UTG: t3145 26.21 BBs
UTG+1: t3275 27.29 BBs
MP1: t1005 8.38 BBs

Pre Flop: (t180) Hero is BB with Q K
UTG raises to t300, Hero ?

Not sure what kind of fold equity I have against an UTG raise if I reshove, not real reads on villain. I don't have a large enough stack to call, but is a fold here too tight?

Hand #3
Full Tilt Poker $10 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (UTG): t9588 23.97 BBs
CO: t2420 6.05 BBs
BTN: t9309 23.27 BBs
SB: t8346 20.86 BBs
BB: t6010 15.03 BBs

Pre Flop: (t600) Hero is UTG with A Q
Hero raises to t885, 1 fold, BTN raises to t2370, 2 folds, Hero ?

I believe I'm chipleader with 11 left (6 pay). Villain has been active pretty much open raising every time in late position, one hand I decided to repop from the big blind and cbet flop with air as he folded. I haven't seen him reshove or defend his blinds too often. I don't think I can make him fold a pocket pair if I reshove.

Hand #4
Full Tilt Poker $6 + $0.50 KO No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t2000/t4000 Blinds + t500 - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+2: t56342 M = 5.37
MP1: t43079 M = 4.10
MP2: t3366 M = 0.32
CO: t30820 M = 2.94
BTN: t62606 M = 5.96
SB: t20872 M = 1.99
Hero (BB): t24155 M = 2.30
UTG: t10445 M = 0.99
UTG+1: t18315 M = 1.74

Pre Flop: (t10500) Hero is BB with Q 7
UTG raises to t9945 all in, 7 folds, Hero ?

Want to make sure this is a standard call. I am getting better than 3 to 1 I presume. Q7o is a slight favorite against any two cards push. What factors point to even folding?


Hand #5
Full Tilt Poker $6 + $0.50 KO No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t800/t1600 Blinds + t200 - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: t10480 M = 2.76
BTN: t17450 M = 4.59
Hero (SB): t54506 M = 14.34
BB: t42371 M = 11.15
UTG: t20801 M = 5.47
UTG+1: t12390 M = 3.26
MP: t11570 M = 3.04

Pre Flop: (t3800) Hero is SB with A Q
UTG raises to t20601 all in, 4 folds, Hero ?

Snap call and fist pump, I presume? Not a lot of reads, stats were 10/4 not a large sample size. I have 45% equity according to pokerstove against a 88+, ATs+, KQs, AJo+ range. Can bubble factor lean this to a fold?

Thanks for everyone's input.
08-31-2010 , 11:58 AM
1. Fold first time around, shove now. Can't r/f 10bb effective
2. Standard fold
3. Shove or nit fold depending on how wide you think he is here
4. Standard call
5. Most ppl are much tighter here than you ranged them at
08-31-2010 , 02:23 PM
whats your river play

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $30(BB) Replayer
SB ($1,350)
Hero ($1,490)
UTG ($3,105)
UTG+1 ($1,500)
UTG+2 ($1,500)
MP1 ($2,970)
CO ($1,470)
BTN ($1,585)

Dealt to Hero A 5

fold, fold, fold, MP1 calls $30, fold, fold, SB calls $15, Hero checks

FLOP ($90) 5 A 7

SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks

TURN ($90) 5 A 7 9

SB checks, Hero bets $61, MP1 calls $61, SB calls $61

RIVER ($273) 5 A 7 9 3

SB checks, Hero bets $300, MP1 folds, SB raises to $1,259 (AI), Hero calls $959
08-31-2010 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaewn
1. Fold first time around, shove now. Can't r/f 10bb effective
2. Standard fold
3. Shove or nit fold depending on how wide you think he is here
4. Standard call
5. Most ppl are much tighter here than you ranged them at
So hand #5 is likely a fold. I ended up folding, I didn't want to, but thinking it over during the hand I was thinking not worth the risk.
08-31-2010 , 03:29 PM
FT

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1,200(BB) Replayer
SB ($4,513)
BB ($7,127)
UTG ($16,285)
UTG+1 ($5,442)
UTG+2 ($4,325)
MP1 ($7,525)
MP2 ($16,063)
Hero ($4,895)
BTN ($1,325)

Dealt to Hero J A

fold, [color=red]UTG+1 raises to $5,367 (AI)



FT

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1,600(BB) Replayer
SB ($8,952)
BB ($29,808)
UTG ($9,833)
CO ($11,469)
Hero ($7,438)

Dealt to Hero J A

fold, CO raises to $11,394 (AI), Hero calls $7,363 (AI), fold, fold

Last edited by poporella; 08-31-2010 at 03:37 PM.
09-01-2010 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedarknight

Hand #4
Full Tilt Poker $6 + $0.50 KO No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t2000/t4000 Blinds + t500 - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+2: t56342 M = 5.37
MP1: t43079 M = 4.10
MP2: t3366 M = 0.32
CO: t30820 M = 2.94
BTN: t62606 M = 5.96
SB: t20872 M = 1.99
Hero (BB): t24155 M = 2.30
UTG: t10445 M = 0.99
UTG+1: t18315 M = 1.74

Pre Flop: (t10500) Hero is BB with Q 7
UTG raises to t9945 all in, 7 folds, Hero ?

Want to make sure this is a standard call. I am getting better than 3 to 1 I presume. Q7o is a slight favorite against any two cards push. What factors point to even folding?

I dont know if I am thinking right, but I would not call there. He's UTG and could be raising a pretty good hand. On the other hand he has 2.5 x BB and pretty short, so it could be a desperate shove. Am I wrong?
09-01-2010 , 11:48 AM
3 to 1 makes next to every hand a call. I may fold like bottom 30% if i believe calling and losing cripples any sort of fold equity i have.
09-01-2010 , 04:54 PM
ive played a few 45 man now to get an idea of my biggest leaks, I think its mainly push/fold, call/fold decisions afer the 50/100 level but when not on the final table, so like the mid stages im missing spots to call and shove. whats the best way to get better at these spots? just keep studing and using wiz?
09-01-2010 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcim
ive played a few 45 man now to get an idea of my biggest leaks, I think its mainly push/fold, call/fold decisions afer the 50/100 level but when not on the final table, so like the mid stages im missing spots to call and shove. whats the best way to get better at these spots? just keep studing and using wiz?
Yea, but change default wiz ranges to realistic ones, and make sure you are on chip ev mode for the non final table stuff
09-01-2010 , 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaewn
Yea, but change default wiz ranges to realistic ones, and make sure you are on chip ev mode for the non final table stuff
thxs, it seems that i come across a spot were i really dont know what to do every 5mins, im thinking about quitting playing for a day or two just to go over some stuff in wiz.
09-01-2010 , 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protential
Need help on how to play a Push/fold spot? Curious about how to play a hand 15bb effective close to the bubble? Need some helpful resources on how to grind these? This is the thread for you!

(as this thread goes people will be easily able to see how to play a very wide range of hands, as long as they arnt lazy they will easily figure out how to crush at the very least up to the 2$ and 4$ 180's)


Resources:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/23...stakes-778377/ : Furo's 180 man guide.


http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...9209807&page=0 : Shaundeebs 180man guide.
Ive never read any of this stuff nor do I use any programs and I beat every game. But ya thx for trying to make the games tuffer, they'll read all this and still play like sh it imo... (the fish anyways)
09-01-2010 , 11:57 PM
Should I be vamoooooooing it up here? I get so damn nitty when I haven't cashed a single tourney and get down to the last one.

Full Tilt Poker $3 + $0.30 KO No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t600/t1200 Blinds + t150 - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t21430 M = 7.14
Hero (SB): t20643 M = 6.88
BB: t15680 M = 5.23
UTG: t7685 M = 2.56
UTG+1: t19321 M = 6.44
MP1: t28346 M = 9.45
MP2: t15794 M = 5.26
CO: t19346 M = 6.45

Pre Flop: (t3000) Hero is SB with 7 7
2 folds, MP1 raises to t3000, 2 folds, BTN calls t3000,
09-02-2010 , 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiggymike
Should I be vamoooooooing it up here? I get so damn nitty when I haven't cashed a single tourney and get down to the last one.

Full Tilt Poker $3 + $0.30 KO No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t600/t1200 Blinds + t150 - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t21430 M = 7.14
Hero (SB): t20643 M = 6.88
BB: t15680 M = 5.23
UTG: t7685 M = 2.56
UTG+1: t19321 M = 6.44
MP1: t28346 M = 9.45
MP2: t15794 M = 5.26
CO: t19346 M = 6.45

Pre Flop: (t3000) Hero is SB with 7 7
2 folds, MP1 raises to t3000, 2 folds, BTN calls t3000,
I play 180's on PS so I can't get a good feel for where you are at in the tournament but I would shove. Should TID often enough to make it super profitable.

Last edited by bs_jayhawk; 09-02-2010 at 12:37 AM. Reason: Um, i'm not sure I could fold anything here. I have a problem though.
09-02-2010 , 08:38 PM
$1.75/18

Poker Stars $1.50+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds + t25 - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t3710 M = 7.07
SB: t1795 M = 3.42
BB: t5707 M = 10.87
UTG: t1600 M = 3.05
UTG+1: t4935 M = 9.40
UTG+2: t1540 M = 2.93
MP1: t2393 M = 4.56
MP2: t1425 M = 2.71
Hero (CO): t3895 M = 7.42

Pre Flop: (t525) Hero is CO with 4 3
5 folds

I want to shove because I think it's good. I'm a little doubtful about these kind of spots because if I go to showdown with 43s here, people are going to snap me like so light in the future. I guess people who play higher have to think about these things even more because they play with the same people all the time. Any general advice? Just shove and don't worry?
09-02-2010 , 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiggymike
Should I be vamoooooooing it up here? I get so damn nitty when I haven't cashed a single tourney and get down to the last one.

Full Tilt Poker $3 + $0.30 KO No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t600/t1200 Blinds + t150 - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t21430 M = 7.14
Hero (SB): t20643 M = 6.88
BB: t15680 M = 5.23
UTG: t7685 M = 2.56
UTG+1: t19321 M = 6.44
MP1: t28346 M = 9.45
MP2: t15794 M = 5.26
CO: t19346 M = 6.45

Pre Flop: (t3000) Hero is SB with 7 7
2 folds, MP1 raises to t3000, 2 folds, BTN calls t3000,
This is a semi stats based spot, but I think I'm shoving 66+ most of the time.
09-03-2010 , 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiggymike
Should I be vamoooooooing it up here? I get so damn nitty when I haven't cashed a single tourney and get down to the last one.

Full Tilt Poker $3 + $0.30 KO No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t600/t1200 Blinds + t150 - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t21430 M = 7.14
Hero (SB): t20643 M = 6.88
BB: t15680 M = 5.23
UTG: t7685 M = 2.56
UTG+1: t19321 M = 6.44
MP1: t28346 M = 9.45
MP2: t15794 M = 5.26
CO: t19346 M = 6.45

Pre Flop: (t3000) Hero is SB with 7 7
2 folds, MP1 raises to t3000, 2 folds, BTN calls t3000,
I like to shove against donks only.
09-03-2010 , 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bojahc
$1.75/18

Poker Stars $1.50+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds + t25 - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t3710 M = 7.07
SB: t1795 M = 3.42
BB: t5707 M = 10.87
UTG: t1600 M = 3.05
UTG+1: t4935 M = 9.40
UTG+2: t1540 M = 2.93
MP1: t2393 M = 4.56
MP2: t1425 M = 2.71
Hero (CO): t3895 M = 7.42

Pre Flop: (t525) Hero is CO with 4 3
5 folds

I want to shove because I think it's good. I'm a little doubtful about these kind of spots because if I go to showdown with 43s here, people are going to snap me like so light in the future. I guess people who play higher have to think about these things even more because they play with the same people all the time. Any general advice? Just shove and don't worry?
I think it might be a bit spewy to shove ATC w/ 20bb and 2 stacks behind you that cripple/cover you.
09-03-2010 , 03:13 PM
$1.75/18

Poker Stars $1.50+$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t400/t800 Blinds + t50 - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: t11534 M = 7.95
CO: t1875 M = 1.29
BTN: t2586 M = 1.78
Hero (SB): t2525 M = 1.74
BB: t8480 M = 5.85

Pre Flop: (t1450) Hero is SB with two cards
3 folds

How wide do you go when
a) BB is a losing player, passive and not overly loose?
b) BB is a moderately winning player, seems decent and shoves widish in the late stages?

It's the bubble if you didn't notice.
09-03-2010 , 04:45 PM
This is the final table of a $0.25 45man.

Poker Stars $0.25+$0.00 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t300/t600 Blinds + t50 - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: t20457 M = 17.79
Hero (SB): t1550 M = 1.35
BB: t8552 M = 7.44
UTG: t5580 M = 4.85
CO: t31361 M = 27.27

Pre Flop: (t1150) Hero is SB with 2 J
2 folds, BTN raises to t1200, Hero raises to t1500 all in, 1 fold, BTN calls t300

Flop: (t3850) Q A 2 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: (t3850) 2 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t3850) K (2 players - 1 is all in)
09-03-2010 , 05:00 PM
Fold, you have 0 FE and a trash hand. Plus you have 3 hands to get it in with better cards.

Last edited by mmbossman; 09-03-2010 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Plus you should have been shoving about 2-3 orbits earlier.
09-03-2010 , 05:19 PM
ATC
09-03-2010 , 06:45 PM
Last 2 tables. Shove here with ATC? I know I'm getting called by any ace, maybe even KT.

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t600/t1200 Blinds + t125 - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (SB): t15527 M = 5.55
BB: t8630 M = 3.08
UTG: t17130 M = 6.12
UTG+1: t26690 M = 9.53
MP1: t28037 M = 10.01
MP2: t16405 M = 5.86
CO: t30807 M = 11.00
BTN: t16962 M = 6.06

Pre Flop: (t2800) Hero is SB with 3 Q
6 folds, Hero ?

      
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