*** Official MTTSNG quick checkup thread *** - Page 32 - MTTSNG -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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*** Official MTTSNG quick checkup thread ***

View Poll Results: 18 man final table approximates closely to 9 man STT?

Yes

235 34.92%

413 61.37%

Other (post comment)

25 3.71%

...

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Page 32 of 103

First

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Last

09-03-2010 , 06:48 PM

#776

Demonic

adept

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 938

Reads? I'm pretty sure this is ATC. Unless it was a reg who had a history of calling extremely light i'd shove

09-03-2010 , 06:48 PM

#777

liamof

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 350

Yes, any two

09-03-2010 , 07:07 PM

#778

ExpectedV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 14,326

Easy shove atc for sure.

09-03-2010 , 08:54 PM

#779

D33P

old hand

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,986

why do people flat and leave one behind?!?

a chip and a chair mentality?

Poker Stars $4.00+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: t755 25.17 BBs
UTG+2: t1395 46.50 BBs
MP1: t3087 102.90 BBs
MP2: t3745 124.83 BBs
CO: t1675 55.83 BBs
BTN: t955 31.83 BBs
SB: t1713 57.10 BBs
BB: t3565 118.83 BBs
Hero (UTG): t4045 134.83 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is UTG with J

Hero raises to t90, 3 folds, MP2 raises to t150, 2 folds, SB calls t135, 1 fold, Hero calls t60

Flop: (t480) 9

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets t30, SB raises to t270, Hero raises to t690, MP2 calls t660, SB calls t420

Turn: (t2550) 2

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t872, MP2 folds, SB calls t872 (he had 873 ott)

River: (t4294) 7

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Spoiler:

09-03-2010 , 08:55 PM

#780

TeamTrousers

talks the talk

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 12,894

yeah, although it's last two tables it's still early so we're still in cEV mode here, and therefore shove any two.

Most randoms call way tighter than they should. You should be shoving any two cos he's probably not calling with 97o like he should be.

09-03-2010 , 08:57 PM

#781

Engel

adept

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 822

yes atc
ICM isn't a factor until the ft and you need to build a stack

09-03-2010 , 09:33 PM

#782

TeamTrousers

talks the talk

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 12,894

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmbossman

Fold, you have 0 FE and a trash hand. Plus you have 3 hands to get it in with better cards.

Erm, 20% of our stack went in with the SB, this is an ATC call because BTN has likely pushed out BB, and we therefore enjoy all the dead money. We are so short that we won't have any fold equity whenever we make our move.

Our cards are completely irrelevant in this spot, no point in even looking at them to see what they are. We just need to get the chips in and pray to the poker gods that they come back with interest once the board has been run.

09-03-2010 , 09:59 PM

#783

job1712

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 106

Dont get this short, ATC

09-03-2010 , 10:48 PM

#784

xwing1987

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 240

im shovin and lovin unless you've seen villain calling really light before.

09-03-2010 , 10:50 PM

#785

killer_kill

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 28,610

Guys he could've lost a hand in the BB and got crippled or shoved UTG and got crippled. Assuming this isn't the case obviously everything everyone else said. Actually as far as FE goes, obviously we have near 0. But I'm going to go against the grain (and probably be a minority), but we'd be shoving into 2 stacks that won't want to call us light. 8k and 5K~ would be the sb/bb next hand. Does anyone like open shoving next hand ATC as opposed to this?

09-03-2010 , 10:54 PM

#786

Vekked

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,294

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_kill

In order to open shove you first need to open, aka, that's def not guaranteed here. Also passing up +EV spots for possible future ones when you're this short is super meh, just jam here and open jam on the stacks next hand with more FE!

09-03-2010 , 10:56 PM

#787

areaman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 13,213

if you got berated in chat, youre doing a good job.

09-03-2010 , 10:57 PM

#788

DKdeuces22

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 290

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamTrousers

i dont think Button has "likely" pushed out BB with a minsraise. Remember it is a 25c tourney. I think you can go either way here really. At this point its pretty much 100% luck.

09-03-2010 , 11:04 PM

#789

TeamTrousers

talks the talk

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 12,894

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKdeuces22

i dont think Button has "likely" pushed out BB with a minsraise. Remember it is a 25c tourney. I think you can go either way here really. At this point its pretty much 100% luck.

well whatever, it really doesn't matter whether he's pushed out BB (although this is a classic example why people should learn how to post hands properly and not include results)

basically, 20% of our stack is in for the SB and this is a call and pray without even needing to see your cards.

09-03-2010 , 11:11 PM

#790

bs_jayhawk

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,645

Nice they finally stickied this thing.

09-03-2010 , 11:22 PM

#791

killer_kill

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 28,610

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vekked

I understand it's not guaranteed to be able to shove obv. I also am aware that passing up +ev is bad to wait for other +ev. I more was implying that I don't feel it's +ev but I'm willing concede that I'm wrong. You misread my post/intention I believe. Also the exclamation point made your post EXTRA SUPER!!!!

09-03-2010 , 11:39 PM

#792

TeamTrousers

talks the talk

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 12,894

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_kill

I understand it's not guaranteed to be able to shove obv. I also am aware that passing up +ev is bad to wait for other +ev. I more was implying that I don't feel it's +ev but I'm willing concede that I'm wrong. You misread my post/intention I believe. Also the exclamation point made your post EXTRA SUPER!!!!

It's almost certainly -EV, but your stack is so short that it's unlikely that you'll see a +EV spot again this tourney. So you have to take the least worst of the -EV spots, and with the potential for so much dead money in the pot, this hand will probably be the least worst one, irrespective of your hand.

Spoiler:

09-04-2010 , 12:06 AM

#793

pointguard

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 638

fold and wait for a better spot.

09-04-2010 , 12:15 AM

#794

sandman369

adept

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 699

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointguard

fold and wait for a better spot.

No chance of finding any good spots if you fold this. You'll have exactly 1150 next hand (-350 this hand and -50 next hand) so you're shoving ATC and getting called by ATC by BB at the very least.

This is ATC all the way.

09-04-2010 , 12:41 AM

#795

pointguard

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 638

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandman369

We don't have to shove next hand, obv. We can see a few more hands and find a spot that isn't as -ev as this one. Also maybe someone else will bust in those few hands.

09-04-2010 , 12:48 AM

#796

mmbossman

grinder

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 549

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandman369

If you're getting called no matter what you hold, why not wait for 3 hands to see if anything with more favorable equity presents itself? I understand that with hero being in SB he's getting a better price to shove now, and it's definitely not the worst hand to shove (J hi isn't bad), but with button raising already I'd say his equity is quite a bit lower than you'd expect.

Most of the above is based on comments made by Collin Moshman in "SNG Strategy" regarding playing stacks of <2.5bb. I absolutely don't consider shoving now to be *bad*, just maybe not optimal.

09-04-2010 , 02:03 AM

#797

rmfan31

adept

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 825

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwing1987

im shovin and lovin unless you've seen villain calling really light before.

afaik unexploitable means that villains calling range doesnt matter. shove it and forget it!

09-04-2010 , 04:16 AM

#798

Protential

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 12,460

Quote:

Originally Posted by bs_jayhawk

Nice they finally stickied this thing.

ship it!

Last edited by Protential; 09-04-2010 at 04:17 AM. Reason: first thread i made to get a sticky!

09-04-2010 , 04:19 AM

#799

BigFish2010

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,375

What is so special about this hand that you haven't posted it in the sticky? Why have sop many replied when we have an agreement that 180's should have their own thread unless the question os something worth a thread of its own?

Q-high is a favourite against a random hand...