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Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused

09-29-2023 , 07:04 AM
Hello guys, sorry to be a little downside of myself in my first post. Currently feel like being crushed in N8 R&C100 pool. Let me try to be honest with myself here

I've been playing poker since 2018 with my college friends, 2 of them start turning into pros recently and having good results. I generally have been winning in live games and some online clubs for years. Been to Vegas for a month last year w/150+hours of playing 2/5. Early this year I started playing on N8(GG) desposit $100 into it and start the grind from NL5, using 20BI for next level in quite aggressive BRC. able to take some shots on NL200 but failed in ~600k hands (1main Jackpot+3sidepot counted). now grinding in NL100 pool.

I believe this game can earn a living as long as player is good enough, so I put in time to study mainly watching pros grind online and materials over the internet. But as long as I progress, I feel like I can't beat the game and constantly losing big pots over and over, not sure if that comes after my 'knowledge' improving tryin to be more aggressive or what, just the results tell im bad. Graph in PT4 always under 0 on both red and green line.

Find it very difficult to recognise my mistakes and direction of learning in this game, so I tried to send my graphs to apply for some CFP but all of them rejected, feeling extra self doubting with my recent downswing as well.

Will keep updating my progress and post some hands hope to get some feedback from you guys, thanks for your time

=================

first hand NL100:
Hero BTN A7s open 2.5bb, SB (85bb effective) 3b to 8bb
Hero calls
Flop J73r
Check Check
Turn 6 bring bdfd
SB bets 33% Hero calls
River brick2
SB bets pot Hero calls

My thought on this hand is I think his preflop could be wide with this size (also gives great price for me to call wider than normal here) and delay cbet on turn size down looks weak, thats why I call river thinks he is some kind of turned miss draw, but end up V is JJ
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-29-2023 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongi
Find it very difficult to recognise my mistakes and direction of learning in this game


What thoughts do you have on overcoming these difficulties?
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-29-2023 , 12:31 PM
If you can't find your mistakes,there are several gto apps that you can paste in large hand histories and it will show you the highest EV loss of your decisions
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-29-2023 , 12:36 PM
Quote:

My thought on this hand is I think his preflop could be wide with this size (also gives great price for me to call wider than normal here) and delay cbet on turn size down looks weak,

This isn't how I perceived the intentions of SB in this hand. I try not to make assumptions on bet sizing until I see some SDs with villain. Everyone kinda is going to have their own take on what sizings might mean, gotta do a little digging to find out how each individual villain sees it.
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-29-2023 , 03:38 PM
Poker is hard AF.

Most advice on this forum is complete nonsense and is from microstakes players who are clueless. You will actually regress as a poker player if you heed their advice, you need MDA and GTO Wizard to study.

This line is a snap fold OTR.

Why?

Your opponent is a fish (read: Broken Stack + non GTO 3bet sizing)

Fish UNDERBLUFF on this line, especially at B30-B100. It's one of the most underbluffed lines in all the game tree.

Good luck man
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-30-2023 , 02:32 AM
Thank you for the comments, I have subscription to wizard, pio and PT4 atm. But tbh I don't really know how to use the later two efficiently.

Maybe I post my graphs as well if anyone notice some huge mistakes from me

Recent 100k hands:



All time stat by position:


I find myself hard to give up on pots emotionally and in poker many times fold instead the highest EV option, it is really hard to tell if I'm doing right or wrong.

Last edited by Spongi; 09-30-2023 at 02:34 AM. Reason: graph detail
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-30-2023 , 06:13 AM
try to move down to R&C50 today, stick to my 20BI BRC format. having some run good AA jammed pre 3way and got KK in gold pot.

interesting hand today:
BB vs HJ. XC-X-? line
I think of HJ check back range on turn is heavily condense in 1pair region (mainly Qx or pocket) given double flush draw on turn
So I doubted to turn my T9 into bluff and not sure what size to take, I think ~75 or is even outpot possible to wrap only straight/flush?
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-30-2023 , 10:50 AM
Did any of the CFPs you applied for give you feedback on why they refused your application? If you grinded your way to 100-200, even if you´re a loser on these levels, you must have won before right? Most CFPs that I have checked seem really happy in accepting new players (this is one thing that makes me concerned about them btw), so for you to be refused, assuming you grinded your way from the micros, there must be something really wrong with how you approach the game, and you should work on that. If they didn´t give you feedback, have you ever asked them for that?
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-30-2023 , 11:42 AM
That T9s hand is a good hand to illustrate where we should deviate from GTO and use MDA strategies.

1. You should fold flop since it is 0 EV in a solver and the bigger cbet sizing's from earlier formations are stronger than solver ranges.

2. You should turn your hand into a bluff here for a few reasons using B120 sizing.

A. Population over barrels flush draws OTT so when they use a X turn line and flush completes OTR, they won't have nearly as many flushes as a solver.

B. Since Villain cbet big OTF it's very likely he has some sort of SDV that is better than weak Tx. Whether it is Kx/Qx/JJ is unclear but you have less than the 40% equity a solver will tell you you have.

I probably would have messed this hand up too in game since if you aren't focused you can easily just check here but I think B120 is going to be higher EV. I want to look this data up for flush completes specifically, I bet they are over folded more than the aggregate.
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-30-2023 , 01:39 PM
technically checking river is by far the correct play, villain would have to play exceptionally bad to make an overbet with T9ss profitable here

I’m on board with flop fold vs big size vs hijack though, our 2nd pair out is pretty bad in this case, better to call 97s than T9s though
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-30-2023 , 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FazendeiroBH
Did any of the CFPs you applied for give you feedback on why they refused your application? If you grinded your way to 100-200, even if you´re a loser on these levels, you must have won before right? Most CFPs that I have checked seem really happy in accepting new players (this is one thing that makes me concerned about them btw), so for you to be refused, assuming you grinded your way from the micros, there must be something really wrong with how you approach the game, and you should work on that. If they didn´t give you feedback, have you ever asked them for that?
Nah either give a mass email format reply or even no echo. Yes I grind up mainly winning from rakeback program, I'm quite sure I'm losing just after rake. even with tools like PT4 I dont rly have an idea on how to use it effectively

for the T9 hand I go through my XC-X-B line found that the profitability is like crazy. does that mean I should actually abuse this spot and overbluff? not sure if this spot should always be winning
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-30-2023 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade
technically checking river is by far the correct play, villain would have to play exceptionally bad to make an overbet with T9ss profitable here

I’m on board with flop fold vs big size vs hijack though, our 2nd pair out is pretty bad in this case, better to call 97s than T9s though
Copying Solver outputs limits your ceiling just like studying MDA without knowing GTO limits your ceiling.

If you nodelock an MDA cbetting range/turn barreling range and then look at MDA for river flush completes and the fold %'s you will see betting river is the highest EV line.

Look at the actual hand, Villain has JJ no club. A solver never has that hand for 3/4 cbet sizing. That makes the river check even worse since IP is more merged than he should be.

Solver discrepancy between sizing's and check EV.



Once you filter this board texture and river, you learn that the river is a hotspot for over folding (on top of the overfolding in general vs Overbet OTR). Then it becomes clear betting is higher EV.
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-30-2023 , 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongi
Nah either give a mass email format reply or even no echo. Yes I grind up mainly winning from rakeback program, I'm quite sure I'm losing just after rake. even with tools like PT4 I dont rly have an idea on how to use it effectively

for the T9 hand I go through my XC-X-B line found that the profitability is like crazy. does that mean I should actually abuse this spot and overbluff? not sure if this spot should always be winning
Yes it is a classic MDA line because population doesn't protect turn X back ranges.
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-30-2023 , 02:22 PM
Get coaching, subscribe to runitonce/upswing, play fewer tables/hands (quality > quantity), try to network and find a group of 1-4 other people to do hh discussion/sweat session/session review/, get gto+/piosolver/gtowizard subscription, etc.

Surprised you think T9 is clear x @xeno. I don't always agree with DDP, but I agree just over bluffing river here is highest ev.
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-30-2023 , 02:35 PM
More questions , why do you play GG, is it the only site available to you in your country? Why R&C, is anyone, who is not already a very good poker player, winning over there with the insane rake? Do you have any history playing regular tables? Were your results better?
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
09-30-2023 , 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
Get coaching, subscribe to runitonce/upswing, play fewer tables/hands (quality > quantity), try to network and find a group of 1-4 other people to do hh discussion/sweat session/session review/, get gto+/piosolver/gtowizard subscription, etc.

Surprised you think T9 is clear x @xeno. I don't always agree with DDP, but I agree just over bluffing river here is highest ev.
yes definitely even anyone who wants to improve seriously look this thread, hit me up on discord FDS#5811
also any idea to gather more spots like this systematically? quite happy to have this hand today

@FazendeiroBH yes my country does not have many choices on poker sites, had some club type small wins before. But I'm moving to Canada by the end of this year so I might consider live games as well
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
10-01-2023 , 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FazendeiroBH
More questions , why do you play GG, is it the only site available to you in your country? Why R&C, is anyone, who is not already a very good poker player, winning over there with the insane rake? Do you have any history playing regular tables? Were your results better?
also I think poker can be a sustainable income if im good enough, so R&C should be a good place to farm up my skills required
I was one of best league of legends player in my region and I put lots of time in it in the past. in poker tho feels like I got time but no direction to improve
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
10-01-2023 , 04:29 AM
liked this hand against a REC cold calling on BTN. guess they over stab 8x on flop and river size quite capped on Tx region
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
10-01-2023 , 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
Get coaching, subscribe to runitonce/upswing, play fewer tables/hands (quality > quantity), try to network and find a group of 1-4 other people to do hh discussion/sweat session/session review/, get gto+/piosolver/gtowizard subscription, etc.

Surprised you think T9 is clear x @xeno. I don't always agree with DDP, but I agree just over bluffing river here is highest ev.
I mean I can see the argument here especially seeing JJ at showdown it just feels like we have a whole bunch of bottom pair we can just auto overbet bluff at pure frequency, and check down 9x expecting some give ups we win against, I mean if data suddenly shift the EV here then by all means go for it, just feels like in the games I play that turn check backs are a bit more protected than doodoo is saying
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
10-01-2023 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade
I mean I can see the argument here especially seeing JJ at showdown it just feels like we have a whole bunch of bottom pair we can just auto overbet bluff at pure frequency, and check down 9x expecting some give ups we win against, I mean if data suddenly shift the EV here then by all means go for it, just feels like in the games I play that turn check backs are a bit more protected than doodoo is saying
Yeah, not at low stakes. 0 JT and 0 flushes and discounted 2p and sets. Very unprotected. Overbluffing like all 9x and 5x for overbet is good play.
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
10-01-2023 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade
I mean I can see the argument here especially seeing JJ at showdown it just feels like we have a whole bunch of bottom pair we can just auto overbet bluff at pure frequency, and check down 9x expecting some give ups we win against, I mean if data suddenly shift the EV here then by all means go for it, just feels like in the games I play that turn check backs are a bit more protected than doodoo is saying
What games do you play in?
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
10-01-2023 , 04:57 PM
500 and 1k
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
10-01-2023 , 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade
500 and 1k
That makes sense, it could be different in your games. I'm studying 50nl-200nl data.
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
10-02-2023 , 02:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
That makes sense, it could be different in your games. I'm studying 50nl-200nl data.
I agree T9 should be bluffing on river, but folding 2nd pair OTF sounds crazy but understandable if villian big bet is too value heavy, but i have never made such exploitative fold tbh

and how do you approach your data to help your game? if you dont mind disclosing
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote
10-02-2023 , 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongi
I agree T9 should be bluffing on river, but folding 2nd pair OTF sounds crazy but understandable if villian big bet is too value heavy, but i have never made such exploitative fold tbh

and how do you approach your data to help your game? if you dont mind disclosing
T9s is folding like half the time at equilibrium here, keep in mind we are playing vs a preflop range of around 20%
Turned down by couple of CFP applications. Downswing/losing player started feeling confused Quote

      
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