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01-27-2013 , 06:24 AM
hand 28. get it in pre.
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01-27-2013 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diablotran
hand 28. get it in pre.
Yeah I didn't see how passive he was postflop before flatting the 3bet.

Hand 31: 22/17 aggro opponent
    Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    Hero (SB): $25.31 (101.2 bb)
    BB: $25 (100 bb)
    MP1: $147.57 (590.3 bb)
    MP2: $25 (100 bb)
    MP3: $25 (100 bb)
    CO: $36.93 (147.7 bb)
    BTN: $11.04 (44.2 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with 7 6
    4 folds, BTN calls $0.25, Hero completes, BB checks

    Flop: ($0.75) 5 4 K (3 players)
    Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50, BTN folds

    Turn: ($1.75) A (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.25, BB raises to $5.42, Hero raises to $17.93, BB raises to $24.25 and is all-in, Hero calls $6.32

    River: ($50.25) A (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: $50.25 pot ($2 rake)
    Final Board: 5 4 K A A
    Hero showed 7 6 and lost (-$25 net)
    BB showed 3 2 and won $48.25 ($23.25 net)
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    01-27-2013 , 02:55 PM
    hand 28, i prefer a 2x 4bet or just over 2x 4bet, he may flat it with his 3bet range, getting the same result as calling, but with a bigger pot and having the iniative in the hand.

    Also may induce a spaz out from Villian, or maybe a light Jam with Ax.

    No point getting too fancy with big hands, when you dont have much of a dynamic with each other anyway, and also with him being passive Post
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    01-27-2013 , 04:33 PM
    Fold turn IMO, all you have is an OE so 8outs maximum.

    you are kinda repping a big hand with 3 bet, however with his raise size, i dont think hes EVER folding to a shove, also instead of the 3bet, i think you shold be shoving, or 3betting a lot smaller if you intend to fold. Raising this size is just bad if he flats, then you gonna shove the river with no FE? or check fold getting massive pot odds

    id fold the turn, you dont have great equity, some of your outs may not be good if he has Ax diamonds or something, and youre going to be facing a pretty sizeable turn c bet by him... its better to see draws as cheaply as possible.

    Last edited by Craigster1; 01-27-2013 at 05:00 PM.
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    01-27-2013 , 05:53 PM
    Yup hand 31 is just so bad. Stick it in with 7high for $25.
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    01-27-2013 , 06:24 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Craigster1
    hand 28, i prefer a 2x 4bet or just over 2x 4bet, he may flat it with his 3bet range, getting the same result as calling, but with a bigger pot and having the iniative in the hand.

    Also may induce a spaz out from Villian, or maybe a light Jam with Ax.

    No point getting too fancy with big hands, when you dont have much of a dynamic with each other anyway, and also with him being passive Post
    He's been 3betting so much though and I hadn't played back yet so I didn't want my first 4bet to be with AA when he's likely going to fold 90% of the time.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chosen0ne
    hand 31: spewwwwwww, just call turn rather than 3betting
    And lead river if I miss?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Craigster1
    Fold turn IMO, all you have is an OE so 8outs maximum.

    you are kinda repping a big hand with 3 bet, however with his raise size, i dont think hes EVER folding to a shove, also instead of the 3bet, i think you shold be shoving, or 3betting a lot smaller if you intend to fold. Raising this size is just bad if he flats, then you gonna shove the river with no FE? or check fold getting massive pot odds

    id fold the turn, you dont have great equity, some of your outs may not be good if he has Ax diamonds or something, and youre going to be facing a pretty sizeable turn c bet by him... its better to see draws as cheaply as possible.
    It's pot limit so that's the biggest I could make it, I want him to fold flush draws so I can't really make a tiny raise. If he calls it sucks but I'm probably shoving since I need so few folds and hope he called turn with Qh3h or something. He doesn't really have a lot of Ax since he checked pre so he's going to be bluffing a lot.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HU4hoes
    Yup hand 31 is just so bad. Stick it in with 7high for $25.


    Hand 32: He was 35/5, I probably should have folded.
      Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      UTG+2: $44.22 (176.9 bb)
      Hero (MP1): $25.58 (102.3 bb)
      MP2: $25 (100 bb)
      MP3: $16.49 (66 bb)
      CO: $33.01 (132 bb)
      BTN: $20.53 (82.1 bb)
      SB: $3.08 (12.3 bb)
      BB: $39.06 (156.2 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J J
      UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, MP2 calls $0.75, MP3 calls $0.75, CO calls $0.75, 3 folds

      Flop: ($3.35) 9 6 6 (4 players)
      Hero bets $2.50, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $2.50, CO calls $2.50

      Turn: ($10.85) 3 (3 players)
      Hero bets $8, MP3 folds, CO raises to $24, Hero calls $14.33 and is all-in

      River: ($55.51) J (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Spoiler:
      Results: $55.51 pot ($2.00 rake)
      Final Board: 9 6 6 3 J
      Hero showed J J and won $53.51 ($27.93 net)
      MP3 mucked and lost (-$3.25 net)
      CO showed T T and lost (-$25.58 net)


      Hand 33: My first hand with villain
        Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

        MP1: $9.54 (38.2 bb)
        MP2: $18.15 (72.6 bb)
        MP3: $27.70 (110.8 bb)
        CO: $9.54 (38.2 bb)
        BTN: $9.34 (37.4 bb)
        SB: $25 (100 bb)
        Hero (BB): $25 (100 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is BB with 9 9
        MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, 4 folds, Hero raises to $1, MP2 calls $0.75

        Flop: ($2.10) 5 T T (2 players)
        Hero checks, MP2 bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25

        Turn: ($4.60) 6 (2 players)
        Hero checks, MP2 bets $1.75, Hero calls $1.75

        River: ($8.10) T (2 players)
        Hero checks, MP2 bets $3.75, Hero calls $3.75

        Spoiler:
        Results: $15.60 pot ($0.70 rake)
        Final Board: 5 T T 6 T
        MP2 showed 3 K and lost (-$7.75 net)
        Hero showed 9 9 and won $14.90 ($7.15 net)
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        01-27-2013 , 06:32 PM
        ... if hes 3betting you like crazy.

        Then wouldnt it be perfect to 4bet him smallish? he may think you are trying to play back at him and then you might induce.

        also by flatting pre, its gonna be pretty difficult to get a lot of money in the pot if he has a bad hand anyway, unless he gets a good flop.

        Id rather fast play vs a 3bet monkey here, unless he 3bets to like $3, then we can think about slow playing if he is aggro post flop.

        should also be Cbetting that flop 100% of the time when checked too, im sure you would be betting if you had air, so be with the AA, especially with the flush draw out there
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        01-27-2013 , 06:34 PM
        also, to your previous comment.... when he raises the turn and you want him to fold a flush draw, if he was going to fold a flush draw, he wouldnt be raising it in the first place, and especially not as big as he did do.
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        01-27-2013 , 07:24 PM
        Getting JJ in there on hand 32 is pretty bad against such a passive opponent 4way (!) pre. Nice to get to their bottom of their ranges for once.

        Hand 33 I am probably raising river. As a default i am cbetting but this is a nice alternative line.
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        01-27-2013 , 11:29 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Craigster1
        ... if hes 3betting you like crazy.

        Then wouldnt it be perfect to 4bet him smallish? he may think you are trying to play back at him and then you might induce.

        also by flatting pre, its gonna be pretty difficult to get a lot of money in the pot if he has a bad hand anyway, unless he gets a good flop.

        Id rather fast play vs a 3bet monkey here, unless he 3bets to like $3, then we can think about slow playing if he is aggro post flop.

        should also be Cbetting that flop 100% of the time when checked too, im sure you would be betting if you had air, so be with the AA, especially with the flush draw out there
        He's 3betting me like crazy because I had been folding too much, he's not a fish who only has a raise button, he's just overadjusting with the 200 hand or so sample he has on me. I doubt he's going to 5bet me with anything less than JJ/AK since his read is that I don't defend to 3bets light which leaves him folding almost all the time if I 4bet.

        I'm OOP and he checked behind. And even with his passive stats postflop he's probably betting flush draws and top pair so donking doesn't really do much for me.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Craigster1
        also, to your previous comment.... when he raises the turn and you want him to fold a flush draw, if he was going to fold a flush draw, he wouldnt be raising it in the first place, and especially not as big as he did do.
        What? This makes no sense, when I pot it he doesn't have the odds to call with a flush draw and he has no fold equity so he just has to fold.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by harrygehakt
        Getting JJ in there on hand 32 is pretty bad against such a passive opponent 4way (!) pre. Nice to get to their bottom of their ranges for once.

        Hand 33 I am probably raising river. As a default i am cbetting but this is a nice alternative line.
        Hand 32 against this guy I don't think it matters how many guys were in on the flop, but I agree it's a fold.

        Yeah for hand 33 I'm an idiot for not raising, I can get value from a smaller full house.

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        01-28-2013 , 08:27 AM
        the guy may fold to a 4bet, depending on the size, or he can flat to a 2x 4bet, or he can spaz out thinking maybe you are playing back at him because youve been folding to his 3bets so much.

        as played, lead the flop, he doesnt cbet enough, also donking looks weak and he can raise you with air and also underpairs he may have. If you donk and he folds then your only likely getting 1 street anyway if you check call, because hes very passive post flop

        and how does it not make sense that when you pot it that he doesnt have the odds?

        this is only presuming that he has a flush draw, he can have flush draw combos, or other strong holdings, i really dont see him EVER raising with just a flush draw, and then folding it to a raise, people just dont do that, they mayaswell get it in and try to bink if they play it like that

        (fish dont care about the odds)
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        01-28-2013 , 11:12 AM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Craigster1
        the guy may fold to a 4bet, depending on the size, or he can flat to a 2x 4bet, or he can spaz out thinking maybe you are playing back at him because youve been folding to his 3bets so much.

        as played, lead the flop, he doesnt cbet enough, also donking looks weak and he can raise you with air and also underpairs he may have. If you donk and he folds then your only likely getting 1 street anyway if you check call, because hes very passive post flop

        and how does it not make sense that when you pot it that he doesnt have the odds?

        this is only presuming that he has a flush draw, he can have flush draw combos, or other strong holdings, i really dont see him EVER raising with just a flush draw, and then folding it to a raise, people just dont do that, they mayaswell get it in and try to bink if they play it like that

        (fish dont care about the odds)
        The problem when he's 3betting half his range is that even if I minraise he's still going to fold a lot.

        I know he's going to call if he has something like Qh3h but it's hard to see him calling with something like 9h6h since most of my bluffs beat that. I have at least 7 outs against his made hands and up to 11 against his draws so I'm getting around 20% back so my bluff is costing around 24-10=12 for the 8 in the pot so I need about 60% folds which I think is pretty reasonable since he can't have anything stronger than a pair. He can't have very many Ax or 2 pair and he's probably more likely to raise a weak flush draw than a combo draw so I'm pretty sure I can get that many folds.
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        01-28-2013 , 01:01 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by pitapita
        The problem when he's 3betting half his range is that even if I minraise he's still going to fold a lot.

        I know he's going to call if he has something like Qh3h but it's hard to see him calling with something like 9h6h since most of my bluffs beat that. I have at least 7 outs against his made hands and up to 11 against his draws so I'm getting around 20% back so my bluff is costing around 24-10=12 for the 8 in the pot so I need about 60% folds which I think is pretty reasonable since he can't have anything stronger than a pair. He can't have very many Ax or 2 pair and he's probably more likely to raise a weak flush draw than a combo draw so I'm pretty sure I can get that many folds.

        why do that when you have some equity in a straight draw, but not enough to flat call.... but when you do raise you are drawing pretty much dead vs his calling range, just seems like a spot that you don't need to get involved in.

        Fold turn and lose like $3-4 or whatever it was, is a much better option imo.
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        01-31-2013 , 01:56 AM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Craigster1
        why do that when you have some equity in a straight draw, but not enough to flat call.... but when you do raise you are drawing pretty much dead vs his calling range, just seems like a spot that you don't need to get involved in.

        Fold turn and lose like $3-4 or whatever it was, is a much better option imo.
        Because I think I get enough folds... if you think he's not raise/folding flush draws there though then I guess I could fold.

        I haven't played for a few days, been literally 10 minutes from 10k VPPs since Sunday, and I'm probably not going to play tomorrow either but hopefully some big things are coming in February!

        I'll have a January review video up on my youtube channel tomorrow but my results are terrible and make me want to puke
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        01-31-2013 , 10:39 AM
        January graph



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        01-31-2013 , 11:09 AM
        Jees how many buy ins did you lose. Like 50??
        Gl next month gotta be a long road to get back on track
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        01-31-2013 , 01:28 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by harrygehakt
        Jees how many buy ins did you lose. Like 50??
        Gl next month gotta be a long road to get back on track
        It's about 30 bi and 20 bi in EV, luckily I ran under EV at 25nl and not 100nl, I have been working on some stuff and really think next month will turn around!
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        01-31-2013 , 01:32 PM
        Pretty sick downswing for 25NL.

        Good luck on running good in February.
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        01-31-2013 , 02:22 PM
        glukgluk
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        01-31-2013 , 03:12 PM
        but how much did you win?
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        01-31-2013 , 07:11 PM
        hi peter, not sure if your still at 6max or at zoom.

        But i myself have been 24 tabling the FR games at 25nl, they are really soft.


        Im going to be grinding them throughout Feb, might be worth multitabling these, i feel that there is more money to be made than at ZOOM games, even fish find the fold button in ZOOM games
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        02-01-2013 , 11:23 AM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by LazyAce
        Pretty sick downswing for 25NL.

        Good luck on running good in February.
        Thanks, hope you run well in February too!

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by RookLeftCampus
        glukgluk
        tyutyu

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Koerperkarle
        but how much did you win?


        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Craigster1
        hi peter, not sure if your still at 6max or at zoom.

        But i myself have been 24 tabling the FR games at 25nl, they are really soft.


        Im going to be grinding them throughout Feb, might be worth multitabling these, i feel that there is more money to be made than at ZOOM games, even fish find the fold button in ZOOM games
        I've been playing normal tables when I have time to play long session and ZOOM when I only have an hour or so. I agree the normal tables are a lot softer.
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        02-02-2013 , 07:05 AM
        gl in february!! I've learned so much from this thread so I'll be following.
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        02-02-2013 , 05:47 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by dirrrr
        gl in february!! I've learned so much from this thread so I'll be following.
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        02-03-2013 , 11:17 AM
        Might play a bit and get 10k VPPs today
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