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"The Pen:" Live NLHE Chat Thread "The Pen:" Live NLHE Chat Thread

04-12-2024 , 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoola1981
I don't know who ATsai is.
A Chinese pro named David.
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04-12-2024 , 06:54 PM
I've made $300K in a year twice before.

It was pretty stressful and $20K losses weren't uncommon either. I don't want that stress right now until my roll is higher.
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04-12-2024 , 07:55 PM
Quote:

Not sure if SABR caught my anecdote from a page or two back, where I 3bet to 4.3x for 1/3rd of my stack, accidentally tell the table I have AA... and get called. This is a game I should be bluffing more in?
I don't know how many people understand this explicitly, but for many bad players, their strategy is to trade mistakes in early streets in the hopes of getting paid on the last street. This is probably what people do calling vs obvious overpairs. In turn our strategy is to magnify their early street mistakes and not make mistakes in late streets. That doesn't mean there can be no bluffing.

Since a big part of making mistakes in early streets is VPIPing too much, it's unavoidable that at some point in the hand, you will either call too much, fold too much, or bluff too much. What a player should do is determine villain's tendency and at which street it mostly materializes.
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04-12-2024 , 08:21 PM
People are too scared to lose with overpairs in general.

The truth is that if you have aces and someone flops a set on you, you are almost always going to get stacked if you are playing properly. The right adjustment isn't to raise so big that pocket pairs can't "set-mine." That's a scared-money adjustment. A lot of the time you aren't facing a pocket pair but hands like QJ or KJ that are drawing super thin, and you really want those hands to flop 1 pair and get stacked. It's far more likely that they'll hit 1 pair rather than 2 pair or better. Or you might get a really blank flop like 822 and then you can bet 1/10th pot and watch Q-high float you or raise you while drawing dead.

Furthermore, you shouldn't 3-bet so tight that no one should ever call you down anyway. That's super easy to play against (always fold).
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04-12-2024 , 08:26 PM
If you raise so big, that people fold while making the correct decision, that's a mistake.

If you raise bigger than optimal, but people still make the mistake of calling, that's a proper adjustment.
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04-12-2024 , 08:34 PM
sabr, you really should sit down at a 1-2 game for a while and adjust to the new reality of what it's like down there

I've literally seen old men not play a single hand for 3 hours straight and then open shove their $200 stack and get snap called off by J8s and surprise surprise the old man has AA

literally witness that stuff
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04-12-2024 , 08:34 PM
Well yes, you should bet whatever you think they will call.

That said, I tend to to go smaller because I don't want to lose them pre. More streets and more play is good for me.
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04-12-2024 , 09:15 PM
Hand values only matter at showdown. If you never get to showdown, it doesn't matter if you have AA or 72o.
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04-12-2024 , 09:22 PM
Not sure what you're trying to say there.
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04-12-2024 , 09:43 PM
Just agreeing that, in general, we don't actually want folds on the flop with our large pairs. I agree that betting so large that people shut down so as to "not get drawn out on" is a scared money approach to the game. If we're never getting to showdown with our big pairs, does it really matter that we have AA?
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04-13-2024 , 03:54 PM
gman, someone shared to me today and i thought you'd enjoy
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04-13-2024 , 11:51 PM
I got dealt aces 4 times in 20 mins tonight. Never in my life have i had this happen. 2 I took down preflop with normal sized raises over limpers, one taken down with a 3bet in position, and one i stacked AK all in pre. It was glorious. Great night for me, ran amazing. Even flopped a set with 66 and got paid on a 4 card straight and flush runout vs 2 villains haha.
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04-14-2024 , 12:46 AM
Last night on 4 consecutive hands I was dealt AA, KK, JJ, and JJ.

AA was the only one that lost, go figure. Some donkey cold-called pre for a quarter of his stack with 22, well played sir.
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04-14-2024 , 01:44 AM
Had this hand today, I think my line is fairly standard:

$5/5. UTG limps. MP limps. Hero limps K6 in CO. Button raises to $20. SB calls. UTG calls. MP calls. Hero calls.

Flop 975 (pot $105)

Checks around.

Turn A (pot $105)

MP bets $40. Hero raises to $140. Everyone else folds. MP calls.

River 2 (pot $385)

MP checks. Hero jams $750.
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04-14-2024 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
Had this hand today, I think my line is fairly standard:



$5/5. UTG limps. MP limps. Hero limps K"The Pen:" Live NLHE Chat Thread:6"The Pen:" Live NLHE Chat Thread: in CO. Button raises to $20. SB calls. UTG calls. MP calls. Hero calls.



Flop 9"The Pen:" Live NLHE Chat Thread7"The Pen:" Live NLHE Chat Thread:5"The Pen:" Live NLHE Chat Thread: (pot $105)



Checks around.



Turn A"The Pen:" Live NLHE Chat Thread: (pot $105)



MP bets $40. Hero raises to $140. Everyone else folds. MP calls.



River 2"The Pen:" Live NLHE Chat Thread: (pot $385)



MP checks. Hero jams $750.
Is that a smaller raise size from the button after 3 limpers? What are you putting MP on here? Or does it not really matter because they're not calling the jam when they check the river after you raise their turn bet?

Last edited by Donat3llo; 04-14-2024 at 01:32 PM.
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04-14-2024 , 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
Had this hand today, I think my line is fairly standard:

$5/5. UTG limps. MP limps. Hero limps K6 in CO. Button raises to $20. SB calls. UTG calls. MP calls. Hero calls.

Flop 975 (pot $105)

Checks around.

Turn A (pot $105)

MP bets $40. Hero raises to $140. Everyone else folds. MP calls.

River 2 (pot $385)

MP checks. Hero jams $750.
I think i would rather not do it with a spade hand and rather have something blocking some sets like 76/56/78 with no spades. We want villain to have spades so I think having them is bad.

Also, in live play sometimes people call more against overbet sizing because they think it looks bluffier and we wouldnt bet so big if we wanted to get called.

Even if we do bluff w this hand i dont think we need to go that big. He isnt folding aces up or sets, so we can probably just bet like 200 or so to fold stuff like pair+SD
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04-14-2024 , 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
gman, someone shared to me today and i thought you'd enjoy
Noice!
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04-14-2024 , 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
I play live poker probably more than anyone ITT. I know they are bad.

That said, I think it's a dangerous mindset to assume that no one will ever get better. The average $5/10 game is way tougher than it was 10 years ago, and this effect will slowly trickle down into lower games too.

I don't doubt that you can beat $1/3 with a fairly "braindead" style, but it would be a mistake to assume that by never bluffing you're not leaving any money on the table. Poker is not that simple, and the truth is that the majority of "conventional wisdom" in poker is hilariously wrong. Computers give zero ****s about what "solid poker" looks like, they are not biased like humans, if you have flaws in your game (and nearly everyone does) you will be beaten with brute force.

So yes, you will beat bad players by nitting it up and always having it, but you're definitely not maximizing your winnings. Someone who understands theory much better will find better exploits than someone who just nits it up, and this is true at any level. Low-stakes isn't a magic place where simplifying and knowing less about poker will make you win more.
GG is a part time player who has found a foolproof style that wins. I doubt he cares about maximizing anything.
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04-14-2024 , 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YanasaurBBQ
I think i would rather not do it with a spade hand and rather have something blocking some sets like 76/56/78 with no spades. We want villain to have spades so I think having them is bad.
It's true that having spades is not ideal for bluffing, but this was also a 5-way pot on the turn, so I can't just go crazy with all kinds bluffs hoping to get it through. So most of these 87/76/65 combos aren't getting to the river like this. Mostly I would just be folding those hands against so many players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YanasaurBBQ
Even if we do bluff w this hand i dont think we need to go that big. He isnt folding aces up or sets, so we can probably just bet like 200 or so to fold stuff like pair+SD
Not trying to make a set fold. I'm betting this size so that he doesn't get any bright ideas about calling with 1 pair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YanasaurBBQ
Also, in live play sometimes people call more against overbet sizing because they think it looks bluffier and we wouldnt bet so big if we wanted to get called.
Not true at all I have all 86s/77/55 in my value range here.
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04-14-2024 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donat3llo
Is that a smaller raise size from the button after 3 limpers?
Yes that's a really small raise and it's fairly weak.

I'm pretty tempted to backraise over these lines except here I probably don't get credit for it after limping CO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donat3llo
What are you putting MP on here? Or does it not really matter because they're not calling the jam when they check the river after you raise their turn bet?
He could have a bunch of pair + draws, draws, or two pair+.

I have roughly 10 value combos here so he should fold most of the time.

Last edited by SABR42; 04-14-2024 at 05:50 PM.
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04-14-2024 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donat3llo
they're not calling the jam when they check the river after you raise their turn bet?
i don't think checking river here narrows their range in the slightest
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04-14-2024 , 06:40 PM
20$ iso over 3 limpers is obv a massive size tell and needs to be exploited. back raise prints v clowns that do this stuff. that being said i dig sabrs line 2. but im unlikely to jam tbh

ALSO: 57 and bluebird today - bombed home from vegas after SPCs biking adventure last night. Did the corn harvest whic was ossum. Big storm tonight and should be skiing pow in the AM. How sick is that!?

Spoiler:
very sick
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04-14-2024 , 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
i don't think checking river here narrows their range in the slightest
So we can assume the bet/call line OTT will be checking much of their range OOP here?
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04-14-2024 , 07:15 PM
You shouldn't face any leads on this river.
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04-14-2024 , 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face
ALSO: 57 and bluebird today - bombed home from vegas after SPCs biking adventure last night. Did the corn harvest whic was ossum. Big storm tonight and should be skiing pow in the AM. How sick is that!?

Spoiler:
very sick
Nice! Any chance you still make it out to CO? I'm probably taking a day this week to hit up Breck. Spoda get some snow this week as well but the forecast seems to change by the hour.
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