Maybe it's quite useless to continue this process though. I've noticed in the Ongame software thread that the client update (new Java based version) will come 18th of May. Think we have to restart from there instead. Most likely there will be a couple of other problems to resolve with the latest big update in memory (I doubt their software team have any competent testers or good requirement guys like myself - just a couple of ad-hoc developers and greedy sales people)

If you don't use force on top, then yes, Ongame will freeze. It's very particular though, the tables goes kind of a transparent white and stop responding as you click on them. You're right though, prob not much of a point trying to fix anything before the new release.

first its flash, now java? ugh.

Java, not javascript? I would assume most poker software is written in java?

Any chance for hotkeys for Pokerstars, for the Bet Slider Shortcut Buttons? This would likely allow me to quit using any outside betsizing software.
thanks for the great product!

ahk

perhaps in the future, but right now i've got some other stuff on my plate.

v 1.99.22
- changed: beta period over
- changed: disallow Old Tables duration = 0 minutes

beta period is now over. thanks to all the users for the feedback, i hope everyone has enjoyed the free program for all this time. i'm a little nervous about finally doing this, hopefully i didn't forget anything. you can purchase the program on the site. i imagine this thread will soon be moved to the commercial software forum, so be sure to check there if you can't find it. you can also get help on the forums on the www.stackandtile.com/forum site as well.

www.stackandtile.com/sat

once the dust settles, upcoming features planned (no timeframe):
- change GUI layout again
- new sites (merge, cake2, entraction? - we'll see what i can do)
- end of hand detection (move tables out of grid and back to stack)
- maybe allow different slot sizes

Hey greg.

Im not keen on your pricing structure. $15 a month is almost $200 a year, which is more than HEM and table ninja put together.

Its a good product, but I dont think its worth anywhere near that much.

For just under $200 I can get another monitor; and its mine bought and paid for. With S&T I have to pay $180 every year.

Best wishes

i understand, your response was not unexpected. its the initial pricing that i chose. we'll see how it works or not. i considered both higher and lower prices. i chose monthly simply because, after this long experimental phase, A LOT of my time is spent on this, whether it being developing, bug fixing, or answering questions on the forums. i would not want to do this indefinitely for someone to pay me a one time $40 fee. its just not worth it. and its not fair for a paying customer for me to not provide support for the product. so it needs to be a fair exchange for both. i think HJalper which was another one man show was planning on selling for like $130. MasterLJ was making a pokerstars table opener and he's stuck with an unfinished product simply because its not worth his time as well (and he was planning on selling for a premium price too). while its more expensive than the big poker softwares, we also have much less users and its a bigger drain on our time. i've been working on this for over a year and a half so i have a decent idea by now about what it will take to continue or not

i might add, consider how much SaT potentially MAKES you, when making your calculations on what its 'worth'. i'm of the biased opinion that it probably makes you well over the $15/month it costs by allowing you to play better across more tables. obviously theres no way for me to know how much its made you over the past year of use, you'll have to see for yourself how many extra monitors you could now buy due to using SaT or not

discussion is always welcome though. i dont mean to sound defensive, but i've put a lot of time in, and sacrificed potential moneys to be had at the tables myself

Well, SaT is a great program and it helped me a lot in the past few months and thats the only reason I will pay the price you are asking. I will pay for all the time I am using it. But I think it's overpriced for new customers.

$180/year is too much.

I think you should give discounts for long term deals. Six months for $50 and one year for $90 would be very attractive prices.

+1 for discounts for long term deals

While I want to be supportive as much as possible for developing software threads,
I do believe the price is not optimal for the market.
I myself am a HU player and use the software for a simple task that wont be worth me purchasing this software.

I also Play a wide range of sites and Party poker does not work with this program "flashing issue" that will also need fixing.
You should be able to get the community's help to fix the issues there if you can't access a party account.

GL Greg

$180 / year

Well good luck and everything.

Personally I wouldn't consider buying SaT for any more than about $50.. its just not worth it. (and thats not $50 / year!)

Its just a LOL price. Personally I think you would generate more revenue by charging a realistic price. Your userbase is not only small its mainly comprised of micro stakes players because very few mid stakes and above are playing this many tables.

i think perhaps everyone is a bit surprised by the pricing simply because it doesn't fall in line with other poker softwares, and you guys are using that as a basis of "worth" instead of what benefits are actually gained from the software. in my opinion, PT3 and HEM are horrifically underpriced and a steal at those prices. any serious player would easily pay $500+ for those, given the benefits. those guys are leaving so much money on the table. then again i'm not a micro stakes player, so i can't comment from that perspective. catering to the micro players is tough, but that might be a valid point that i've overlooked. if SaT allows you to play even 1 or 2 more tables per session, that probably easily covers the $15/month

while i feel a bit disheartened, its ok because i realize thats business. but i cannot and will not continue this project if its not worth my time. as it stands right now, im currently throwing my time away, and i cant continue like that. id rather delete my SaT directory and go back to playing poker or learning the stock market. now, there is probably a large discrepancy between what i think my time is worth and what you think its worth. this sole fact will probably determine the success or demise of SaT.

the other product MultiTableManager (which had a similar purpose as SaT) was scrapped too, due to it not being worth the author's time. such is the life of the one-man software writer. if my pricing for SaT proves to not be appropriate for the market, then i will simply choose to move on as well, and chalk up the past year and a half as a learning experience: "be sure of your market before you waste your time writing a single line of code"

all that said, thanks to everyone for the suggestions, and thanks for using the software for all this time. i hope its been good for you. i will re-think things a bit today and consider some long term pricing as well. we'll see. maybe i'll raise prices.

Its funny how people love to use freeware. When the author then decides the beta is over and he need to have some compensation for the time being used/using, people start stating prices are to high.

Really, come on folks! 15$ a month. Cereus, thats a bargain!

Greg, keep up the good work and continue with the prize youve set!

mckrogh you are absolutely right!!!! People complaining about the price are so pathetic! If you can't make $15 extra a month, face the truth- you suck at poker!!! And you are trying to play a few tables at a time?! Don't be ridiculous! Just do get a job at McDonalds or something.Don't waste your time trying to play poker. It's obvious you don't make money. Or actually use the program to your advantage. That's exactly the purpose of it! HELP YOU MAKE MORE MONEY WITHOUT WASTING YOUR TIME! Actually pardon me, maybe you are stupid enough to play every hand or to sit at one table waiting for a good hand for hours! Then I understand your problem. Once again the solution is at McDonalds.

Greg, thank you for the program! And don't worry about the price. People who play poker professionally make more than extra $15/month.And StackandTile worth it. All the losers that complain about the price can go to hell!

Well kid I don't think you have much chance at Poker. If you can't pay $15/ month for a program, you either don't know how to use it or you totally suck at Poker.

Good luck!

I was initially surprised by the price but I think that's mainly because HEM for instance is sooooo cheap for what it is and the support you get. Any other software trying to operate in the poker market is going to seem expensive by comparison.

I would also think almost 100% of online pros have bought HEM and this will definitely not be the case for S+T

Just make sure you buy it after that speech!

The problem ist $15 a month its that if you type 32" monitor into google you find things like this http://salestores.com/mitsub36.html for $325

If you start bargin hunting on ebay you can get these for just over $250 which is about 18months use on S+T.

If I was going to spend $180 then I would also look for other alternatives and if I had to choose between a 32" monitor or S+T id pick the monitor as it isnt that much more.

Well then pick monitor. No-one is forcing u to buy SaT. If you dont like the prices. Dont buy. Simple really!

And of the record, a big monitor cant do the job SaT do.

But its up to you. You have the right to make the choice youself!

Well it's already not a secret that you Stu_the_kid_Ungar try to find the cheapest stuff ever. Maybe you should consider putting your time into making money instead of browsing the web for cheapest price. If you had money you wouldn't be so penny pinching. The bottom line is if you don't like the price, just don't use the program and stop bitching.

mckrogh I am really happy to see at least one person with a reasonable thinking! That's who deserve the wealth! Good luck to you in everything you do!

i appreciate the support. lets leave it at that and try not to turn this into a personal argument. ultimately the market will determine whether or not my pricing is practical

I've been using it for it's hotkey ability on ipoker and purely for that, just for folding in fact might be worth your while considering a seperate version which just enables hotkeys on ipoker and you could sell this at a standalone price as a simple utility instead of a monthly price I would just say that the total cost of ownership of Microsoft Office over a two year period is less than your software which seems kinda crazy to me, but then again... it's your product! Perhaps I'm just bitter as I won't be paying any monthly fee, and the software was useful the past week or so I've been using it to fold for me ;p

Best of luck with this! You've obviously put a lot of effort into it, and I hope it works out for you, and you get lets of regular subscribers :-)