Shame the numbers weren't 4 8 15 16 23 42

Judging someone's moral compass on how they enjoy watching tv is pretty lolbad.

This is a pretty cliché observation at this point, but so much of the show has always been about toying with, stretching, and eventually breaking the audience's allegiance to Walt.

What I found brilliant in this last episode is that by bringing Marie and her conflicts with Skyler into the picture--and having Marie try to kidnap Holly--they've given the audience a new avenue for wanting Walt to win, just to stick it to the least likeable character on the show. Marie was extremely unreasonable in that scene. The moment that Skyler started to say something--and it was "I'm sorry"--Marie slapped her, stormed off, and tried to take Holly.

This is anecdotal, but a few people I know on FB (most of them mothers with young kids) have said they're rooting for Walt now, just because they dislike Marie so much.

I disagree for two reasons

1) Even though Walt is clearly evil, we've watched him develop for five seasons and obv have the most intimate relationship with his character. It is natural to continue to root for him in that spot, while simultaneously acknowledging that his actions are horrific. T Soprano is another example of this, at least for me.

2) In the last episode, we see Hank consumed with catching Walt, and quite literally in a blind rage. Scene with Skyler in the restaurant is a great example. I strongly disagree we're supposed to be rooting for Hank to catch him. Instead, I would assert that his character is being portrayed as driven by the obsession with Heisenberg to a fault (trying to manipulate his relationship with Skyler via convo in restaurant). Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't expect this of Hank, but it continues the BB theme of no character being presented as wholly "good."

Hank is a pretentious wanker

Walt won't kill Hank because he's family, on the other hand Hank wants to catch Heisenberg at all cost. Is he so blinded by rage that he doesn't realise Walt is family?

Really?

Even though I've found Marie to be super-annoying through the entire series, I was %100 with her in that scene. She's just found out that her sister has aided and abetted a meth kingpin who almost got her husband murdered. So Skyler tried to apologize, big deal. Also, Marie could have hit her with a Louisville Slugger at that point rather than slapping her, and it would have been justified. Likewise trying to take the baby out of a den of methmurder. I thought Hank stopped her just b/c he wasn't fully up at that point on just how complicit Skyler is.

He stopped her because taking a kid out of his home against the wishes of his parents is highly illegal

I think it's weird people think we're supposed to root for certain people on the show. Hank works for the ****ing DEA. He's Satan as far as I am concerned. The person I am closest to rooting for is Jesse, because he has an inner life and a morality and is tortured by what he's been a part of. Hank not so much. He's driven either by what he's told to do or by what is good for him personally, just like Walt.

Hank isn't wholly good at all, and is certainly obsessive about Heisenburg, but he's an essentially honorable guy who wants the best for his family, including Walt's kids.

Regarding point #1, I don't like the comparison to TS at all. Tony did lots of horrible ****, but we were given many reasons to care about him. There were many redemptive and humanizing elements written into the series arc, not the least of which was that he was written to be funny/cool/likable. He's a classic antihero. In contrast, I don't see Walt as an antihero--yes, there are some humanizing elements, but the main one (the emotional premise of the series, in fact) "making money to provide for my family after I die," really feels long since abandoned as a pretense. Walt might have been in antihero mode in in the first three seasons, but he's been squarely in villaintown since season 4

I don't root for anybody, I just hope its a fun ride.

I fully expect and would be happy with everybody losing.

I don't apply real world morals to a fictional tv show.

To me the show is at its best, when Walt is at his worst, so I hope to see more of that.

Let's just forget about him beating Jesse to the point of hospitalisation in S3.

Hank is not a "good guy" at all, he simply has his own set of obsessions.

He would have gone along with it if he'd been privy to the conversation leading up to it between Skyler and Marie. FFS, he told Walt to give him the kids like six hours before that.
Hank has a moral compass and tries to do right by his family. Whether or not you like the DEA, comparing him to Walt is lol. Jesse is basically sympathetic, although I personally find his endless emo guiltfest a little tiresome.

Agree with this.

The show is essentially a tragedy. I expect Hank to die and I expect him to deserve it. He is not a good guy. He's just the "good guy" de jour after Walt has become obviously evil.

I don't think he's actually like Walt, though he shares some traits. One of them is care of family. Walt actually offers to Skyler in the episode just gone to give himself up to let his family prosper. He's evil, but he is a family man. In that, they're comparable.

Great post.

I think it's possible the show writers might have gone overboard a bit here. It seems like they want all of the characters to have lots of flaws (and they certainly do), but also to be at least somewhat honorable and concerned about their family. Lydia expresses this in her rants, we've seen Mike and his granddaughter, and the show started off with Walt's concern for his family.


We've been shown sooooooooooooooo much of Walt doing bad stuff and breaking bad, that it's hard to forgive him for any of it imo. It seems kind of like the writers might want us to feel like Walt still has some honor due to not wanting to "send Hank to Belize" and also being so concerned about making sure his family gets the money, but it's a bit too little too late. I was asking myself if Walt would give himself up if he was living longer than 6 months, and if he really was just concerned for his family or more for his own legacy. It would have been incredibly hard to do this, but the only way to actually make me feel for Walt would have been if they were constantly referencing his motivations as he's descending for 5 season. I'm not sure if the writers actually do want us to feel for Walt or not, but if so I think the show has moved past that point... at least for me.

Right, after he's taunted by Jesse, then diverted from obtaining a warrant that would lead to Jesse's arrest by being led to believe his wife is dying or dead from a car accident.

I'm not claiming Hank is Dudley Do-right, but I think you're seriously misreading this show and its intentions if you don't think there's supposed to be a difference between Hank and Walt. The whole point of the show is charting Walt's slide into utter depravity and monstrousness, via his own greed and desire for power. If you think it's irrelevant to the show who "wins," (and depending on the point the show wants to make, it might very well be Walt) you might as well watch something truly amoral, like the Avengers

Not sure Batman is a good reference there, Batman is exactly what he is Maybe "St Francis" would work.

Hank is supposed to be a better person than Walt and I agree that he is. But he isn't a good person. Part of that is within the show (him beating Jesse, pushing Skyler to get to Walt etc) and part of it is my opinion and probably not shared by the show (people who work for the DEA have sold their souls, imo).

It's all lip-service with Walt. He's been perfectly willing to endanger his family's lives since like season 2, if it meant one more chance to get away with stuff and seize more money/power.

Any chance Jesse comes out vicious and evil when all is said and done?

I know it's a borderline dumb thought, but I could see it eluded to as a last scene for him. He did say he's the bad guy before. And though he has more of a heart then the others, Hank's approach and method to get info from him could push Jesse over that line to where he wants to get rid of all aspects of his former life by any means necessary.

Saying Hank is not a good person is way overboard. He's definitely a good person, but has large character flaws. You are completely disregarding his overall character because of a few times when he made huge mistakes. The mistakes were large, but they don't overshadow everything he's done and is trying to do.

babysitting and kidnapping are not the same thing. parental consent or lack thereof is really quite an important distinction.

Not sure about that. In the bathroom chat last ep, he obviously thought Skyler had spilt the beans to Hank and was willing to surrender.

Conversation has drifted a bit. I agree Hank is supposed to be a flawed hero in the context of the show. I don't personally - i.e. my personal opinion - think he is a good person at all, nor do I think the show is pushing him as "the guy you should root for". I thnk the show is beyond having people to root for.

I think Hank is a flawed hero to about the same extent Jesse is a sympathetic villain. You can root for either.

Hanks motivations in chasing Heisenberg are at least partially selfish.

Remember the book he gave to Walt Jr? Killing Pablo. About bringing down drug kingpin Pablo Escobar. More specifically the book focuses on the dea agents and other officials who went after him.
"Everybody knows who Pablo Escobar is, nobody knows about the guys who brought him down."
"Those guys were worth writing about!"

Hank wants to be that guy.

I'm not sure how much of a distinction there is in the context of Hank being a DEA agent who knows Walt is a meth lord. He thinks he has Walt over a barrel and is basically demanding his kids; he's not asking nicely and he's not talking about babysitting either.
I agree with the last bit. And I wouldn't say the show wants you to "root for" anyone, but I do think, inasmuch as it draws very clear moral distinctions between characters, it's natural to be on the side of one character and not another (i.e. anyone but Walt). Imo if you're not experiencing these kind of allegiances (Mike, for instance, was a deeply sympathetic character in spite of being a hitman and goon b/c he displayed the sort of "family first" honor that Walt only uses as a tool of persuasion), you're only watching the show on a surface level. BB is all about moral relativism and degrees of guilt/culpability/etc. and the moral calculations the characters make are meant to be significant.