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06-15-2010 , 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp
So what's the significance of the audience taking a head shot along with Gayl? Just kewl camera work?
We're all really already dead, life as we know it is merely the dream of a dying mind, and accepting that is the only way we can wake up and move on.
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06-15-2010 , 12:51 AM
Btw. So many great details in Gail's apartment scene. They provide some insight in how he would have never made it in academia. Lovable and eccentric hyper educated polymath, yes, but it turns out that you can be too big a nerd for a science department.
06-15-2010 , 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp
So what's the significance of the audience taking a head shot along with Gayl? Just kewl camera work?
i thought about it and i think it's mostly because doing it any other way would have been kind of lame or required a line to make it a fitting ending? like say jesse fires the gun and we physically see gale's body drop to the ground. then roll the credits? that just doesn't really work in my mind. cinematically it seems much better the way they did it, but maybe i'm being results-oriented
06-15-2010 , 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcTiOnJaCsOn
basically ya, i dont think theres any added signifgance
Quote:
Originally Posted by nath
We're all really already dead, life as we know it is merely the dream of a dying mind, and accepting that is the only way we can wake up and move on.
Well, sometimes the author doesn't have control of his own imagery, and it can either create incongruities or reveal truth the author himself was unaware of. In this case it may mean turning Jesse will kill the show. Who really wants to see a season of him gripping because he killed someone?

Last edited by shemp; 06-15-2010 at 12:55 AM. Reason: chain pulling here. I love the show.
06-15-2010 , 01:19 AM
I wonder if we'll get "I shot someone.. I didn't want to" clean Jesse or the meth using Jessee? Will this make him quit again or drive him deeper down Glass Pipe Road?

Last edited by LVGambler; 06-15-2010 at 01:20 AM. Reason: i think a torn apart jessee is what we'll get
06-15-2010 , 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVGambler
I wonder if we'll get "I shot someone.. I didn't want to" clean Jesse or the meth using Jessee? Will this make him quit again or drive him deeper down Glass Pipe Road?

in reality, his character would be devastated by this, and would do more meth because of it
06-15-2010 , 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp
Btw. So many great details in Gail's apartment scene. They provide some insight in how he would have never made it in academia. Lovable and eccentric hyper educated polymath, yes, but it turns out that you can be too big a nerd for a science department.
Loved the recumbent bike on top of Gail's car, that was a perfect detail
06-15-2010 , 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHip41
in reality, his character would be devastated by this, and would do more meth because of it
maybe the reformed skinny pete and badger will help him through
06-15-2010 , 02:55 AM
Saul hosts a dinner party on curb your enthusiasm.

Season 1 episode 3
06-15-2010 , 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loob
And yeah, Gus is a tidy businessman but what the hell is he doing having face to face interaction with street level thugs? I would think a man in his shoes would have like 5 people in his inner circle that had any clue who he was.
Ya, I feel like this was a bit of an error on the writers part. It felt really awkward to have those characters all in a room together. Also I feel like signs point towards Gus having nothing to do with ordering the boy's death, yet if this is the case it completely conflicts with the clout that has been written for the character, as a couple street thugs wouldnt dare commit such a flagrant act of insubordination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mused01
okay one stupid question from me:

when walt told gus that he would "never ask that" when confronted about the child killing was he

A. Implying that Walt knew Gus ordered it and wouldn't have to ask

or

B. He believed Gus would never do it.

or

C. He was just saving his ass at the moment.
He wouldn't ask, because he wouldn't want to know the answer. Also I think this was a VERY important exchange that people don't seem to have really picked up on. I'm not sure if this was the exact tipping point, it would take some rewatching to be sure, but this short exchange clearly shows Gus losing control, while Walt keeps his cool.

Gus has been such a strategic player, and was always able to acknowledge and even admire the strategic moves made by others. But here he is shown to be blinded by emotion. Walt was simply illustrating Jesse's state of mind, not making any accusations.

But maybe everyone isn't overlooking this and I'm just reading to far into it?



Quote:
Originally Posted by nath
I love the specificity of dialogue in certain moments and by certain characters. Mike telling Walt, "the sooner you figure this thing out, the sooner we can all go home" is a perfect example. Slick double meaning implied there to Walter-- "this thing" being that he's about to be killed and will have to "figure out" a way out of it.
I really enjoyed the really tight dialogue in this episode as well. However I think that even if we are to believe that Mike harbors sympathy for Walt, I do not think that the alternate meaning for what hes supposed to "figure out" is "a way out of it."

I think that the only way this works is if the writers are tastelessly using Mike as a vehicle of an ill-conceived audience nudge. Judging by the apparent talent that the writers have displayed, I not only dont think its the case but I sure hope its not.

Instead I think it was simply the characters voice, and not the writers. The alternate meaning of what he was supposed to "figure out" is that a long string of choices and events have led to Mike, whether he cares or is indifferent, having to kill him, and thats that. He was telling him to just accept his fate. But then Walt shows his trump card.

Its like the classic poker hand scene in movies, where the villain confidently shows quads, but the hero coolly shows his straight flush, scooping the pot. And this is a credit to the writers, as they were able to take this all too corny and cliche scene, and subtly and successfully weave it into this finale.


p.s. furthermore, Mikes reaction to Walt's trump card doesn't jive with your read of the double meaning.

p.p.s. A few people have said something to the tune of Gale being "innocent." I think when Gus pays him a visit he may be naive at first, but when Gus just gives him that inexpressive stare and he agrees that he can learn all he needs to know in one more cooking session... he's no longer innocent. He may not want to be part of Walts death, which is shown while they are cleaning the vat and he tries to say something, then shuts up when Victor approaches, but he is certainly not innocent.
06-15-2010 , 03:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VayaConDios
Loved the recumbent bike on top of Gail's car, that was a perfect detail
Yeah, I got a good laugh from this.
06-15-2010 , 05:03 AM
Good posts.
06-15-2010 , 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomshakalaka
...Also I feel like signs point towards Gus having nothing to do with ordering the boy's death, yet if this is the case it completely conflicts with the clout that has been written for the character, as a couple street thugs wouldnt dare commit such a flagrant act of insubordination.
I agree with the last point, and I absolutely think that Gus did order the Tomas' murder. I mean he said "no more kids", the line seems purposely open to interpretation. There are so many other ways he could have said that, but he chose that one, why? Maybe "no more kids" meant "kill that kid".

Quote:
...Also I think this was a VERY important exchange that people don't seem to have really picked up on...but this short exchange clearly shows Gus losing control, while Walt keeps his cool.
Exactly, he seemed defensive, which backs up the thought that he might have given the order. He was possibly also angry because Walt has shown that he understands how Gus thinks, and the Machiavellian ways that he operates (see sending the cousins after Hank to save Walt, which sent the DEA after the cartel). I agree with the theory others have put out there that he ordered the kid killed because he knew Jesse would go after the dealers, they'd take him out, and that would be the end of that problem. Walt knows this too, so he took a "full measure" to save Jesse. Notice how angry Gus was that Walt intervened on behalf of "that junkie", foiling his plan.

And look at the Walt/cousins thing, Gus was fine with putting a relatively innocent person in harm's way there too. Sure he warned him (probably via Mike), but he still easily could have been murdered, and was crippled. Or maybe Hank was guilty the same way Tomas was; Hank did kill Tuco, and Tomas did kill Combo, and to hell with the mitigating factors, right? Or maybe Gus doesn't really care, the ends justify the means. Do we have any reason to have any faith in his sense of morality? He's a drug dealer, ffs!

Quote:
Gus has been such a strategic player, and was always able to acknowledge and even admire the strategic moves made by others. But here he is shown to be blinded by emotion. Walt was simply illustrating Jesse's state of mind, not making any accusations.
Like I said, I think Walt knows how he thinks, and was making an accusation. Not sure why, maybe for the hell of it, maybe to see Gus' reaction, maybe to **** with him, maybe because he thought he was dead anyway so "why not?". Maybe just because that's what Heisenberg would have done.

Quote:
A few people have said something to the tune of Gale being "innocent."...He may not want to be part of Walts death, which is shown while they are cleaning the vat and he tries to say something, then shuts up when Victor approaches, but he is certainly not innocent.
I don't buy it. He might suspect what's going on (then again I still think there's an excellent chance he's totally naive and clueless), but I doubt he knows for sure, and isn't an active party to this conspiracy to kill Walt (and Jesse). He's an unknowing pawn as far as I'm concerned. I do think he was going to ask Walt about his health in the scene cleaning the vat, but then was obviously intimidated by Victor.

I mean in his final scene when Jesse is at the door, he has no idea why he's there (even though he has met Jesse before, when he gets fired), can't comprehend what's going on, thinks he's a mugger. Correct me if I'm wrong, I only saw it once, but I don't remember a sense of recognition either of Jesse or the situation at hand. It's a stretch to say he's guilty of much, akin to Walt's rationalization of his continuing pile of collateral damage.

Anyway, nice post. I don't even know if I disagree with most of it, or I'm just playing the devil's advocate here. I tend to just throw out wild theories and idle speculation itt, because the show is so open to interpretation and varying paths.
06-15-2010 , 09:37 AM
"I don't think Jesse shot Gayle because the gun moved" is the new Schuyler.
06-15-2010 , 11:09 AM
so good, cant wait for s4.
06-15-2010 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomshakalaka
I really enjoyed the really tight dialogue in this episode as well. However I think that even if we are to believe that Mike harbors sympathy for Walt, I do not think that the alternate meaning for what hes supposed to "figure out" is "a way out of it."
I don't think it's a conscious double meaning on the character's part. Just something for the audience to pick up on if they're thinking about things like word choices.
06-15-2010 , 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianr
"I don't think Jesse shot Gayle because the gun moved" is the new Schuyler.
yeah, Jesse def. drove over there like a bat out of hell, got into the room, and then moved his gun 30 degrees to the left and shot a bullet into the wall and left.


good job tards.
06-15-2010 , 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp
Btw. So many great details in Gail's apartment scene. They provide some insight in how he would have never made it in academia. Lovable and eccentric hyper educated polymath, yes, but it turns out that you can be too big a nerd for a science department.
what in gods name are you talking about? gail's to big of a nerd to make it in " academia "
06-15-2010 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVGambler
I wonder if we'll get "I shot someone.. I didn't want to" clean Jesse or the meth using Jessee? Will this make him quit again or drive him deeper down Glass Pipe Road?
i know why they do it but i really hate the whole whiny doing everything against the grain jesse. then walt constantly messing everything up to save him. not the oh im so interested im going to watch every episode to see if they finally kill jesse annoyed, but the this whole thing is making me enjoy this show less annoyed.
06-15-2010 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
what in gods name are you talking about? gail's to big of a nerd to make it in " academia "
lol i didnt get it at all either.
06-15-2010 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHip41
yeah, Jesse def. drove over there like a bat out of hell, got into the room, and then moved his gun 30 degrees to the left and shot a bullet into the wall and left.


good job tards.
ya the more i look at it the more obvious it is that he shoots gail
06-15-2010 , 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
what in gods name are you talking about? gail's to big of a nerd to make it in " academia "
I think when he met Walt there was something suggesting that while doing his phd he realized that that wasn't the route for him. But no, it isn't true. I was being facetious.

Last edited by shemp; 06-15-2010 at 02:17 PM. Reason: so i guess i just missed
06-15-2010 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
what in gods name are you talking about? gail's to big of a nerd to make it in " academia "
Academia often involves a lot of petty politicking and/or dealing with extremely self-important, self-serious people. Gale's demeanor seemed almost too naive for that, and even if it wasn't, it wouldn't surprise me if dealing with the egos involved made him sick of academia. Like Kissinger once said, "The politics in academia are so vicious because the stakes are so small."

Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp
I think when he met Walt there was something suggesting that while doing his phd he realized that that wasn't the route for him. But no, it isn't true. I was being facetious.
He did mention something about academia not being for him, although I don't remember the details. The above is just my speculation.
06-15-2010 , 03:28 PM
Sounds exactly right to me nath. He basically said that he despised politicking and he loved the lab, which is what led him to become a meth cook.

Was that a hookah on his coffee table?
06-15-2010 , 03:35 PM
One thing I loved about this episode was the scene with Gale singing in his apt. In one 2 minute scene they managed to tell us everything we need to know about Gale's personal life to realize that he is the IDEAL replacement for Walt. He seems to be an equally skilled chemist and obviously is a meticulous person who leads the very solitary lifestyle that Gus was encouraging Walt to lead earlier this season.

One nitpick i have about the finale is that Gus being so dependent on Walt's productivity seems a bit of a stretch. Yes these last 2 episodes have shown that Gus is not infallible as a drug lord, since he was outplayed by Walt who was willing to go the full measure of killing the street thugs, while Gus only ordered or allowed the killing of Tomas which he knew would send Jesse over the edge. However, not being able to survive even a week without the 200 lbs. Walt is producing seems like really piss-poor planning not in line with Gus' actions in being smart enough figure out how to cut out the cartel. Especially since in the week Gus cut them out, Walt didn't produce ANY meth while spending time with his family.
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