the moment that the "belief" is presented, explained, and understood as fact. i don't care what specific belief is. just plain brainwashing of innocent children no matter how you cut it.

now, if that "belief" was presented as an option along side other options and the children were taught to critically analyze and come to their own conclusions, i'm fine with it.

<tangent>
but let's be honest, no one wants their own kid thinking something different from themself. parents are all arrogant douches (sorry, but you are). for an example of their arrogance, simply consider the fact that there are millions of children all around the world desperate for parents, yet you two parents feel the necessity to pop one out and let those other ones rot just so you can have some pointless blood relation.

furthermore, no one actually has children for the only proper reason that one should want children - that is to create the best possible life for a child. ask EVERY ****ING PARENT why they had kids and you'll hear a ton of random, stupid reasons, but you sure as hell won't hear the only one that should matter. if that was the actual reason, they would have saved one that needed saving and adopted.

(sorry, but this issue kind of pisses me off and i could go on forever). </tangent>

Are you mightybooshes second account

some people might claim that, for example, sub atomic theory was being presented , explained and understood, as fact. If this is your benchmark for whether something is to be taught or not, then most things would be barred. So there must be some other reason why religious beliefs cannot be presented, explained and understood as fact. Can you expand on what this might be?

Ah, the old "teach children critical thinking and allow them to come to their own conclusions", but of course, this will only apply to certain things. If they come to their own conclusion that school sucks, and theyd rather play xbox, then of course, they are wrong?


classic hyperbole, broad brushing, and generalisation

Really, thats the only reason, the proper reason? How did you work that out?

Are you pulling a Booshian error of creating a special category of beliefs subject to special rules that do not apply to other beliefs?

Edit: Slow pony.

lol u mad bro

Ha. Never seen aaron pull the "lol u made bro" before. I think I like it.

So it is dangerous for me to teach my kids it is OK for people to be different to them? e.g. to be of a different sexuality/race/gender?

Right so I should present to my kids racism and homophobia as valid choices for them? I am really glad most people don't hold this view.

I can tell you this is wrong, My ex wife is a self confessed racist (she was raised by a mum with racist opinions and has been unable to fully shed those views despite recognising them) yet strives to ensure that our children are not racist in any way. So there you go an example of a parent actively wanting their child to have different and better views than themselves.

Because all children are born because the parents plan to get pregnant right.......

Also who would have thought animals would have a drive to reproduce and pass on their genes in blood related children

I assume that it is you that gets to decide the only reason that should be valid for people to have children? what other decrees do you have for us? just so I know how I should be living my life according to the gospel of k_trigs

You think you're joking, maybe, but I don't find it hard to believe given the comments you make that you still think that my position on this is exactly where it was 12 months ago. It's not, I keep telling you this to no avail, apparently.

Also, mightybooshes should have an apostrophe to show that it is possessive, like this - mightyboosh's

Good grammar is the difference between knowing your sh*t, and knowing you're sh*t, but maybe you preferred xbox to school? Peace out.

You been waiting a while to shoehorn that joke in?

That's the only excuse for such cobblers.

Ha!

going on the way you still talk about religion, it doesnt seem to me like your position has moved any significant amount.

You may not use the word "brainwashing" any more but its clear you still have a strawman idea of how ( the majority of) religious parents teach and interact with their children, and you still object to "teaching something as if it was true" even though you do the same yourself.

He's used that one before. It's like a defense mechanism against neeel when neeel is pointing out his repeated errors. Maybe it makes him feel better about himself.

You're assuming that I was using it as a joke.

I actually did use it as a joke a few months back on this forum and nobody cared that time, but when I use it to needle Neel (slap my wrist), I get a totally different reaction. Interesting.

Really? More indicative of how you feel about me than Zumby I guess.

Oh my, progress....

I doubt that is the sole issue.

Me too, maybe he just loves the word 'cobblers' and hasn't seen it used for a long time unless he reads the tabloid press, they seem to love it.

Given that it has it's roots in the Cockney rhyming slang 'cobbler's awls', to rhyme with 'balls', and generally means 'nonsense', I'm not even sure why you used it.

Are we engaging in banter?

Shoehorn and cobblers is a better play on words than nonsense would be.

Haha!

Omg that was such a bad pun that I didn't even see it, shame on me. (And the worse a pun is, the better it is IMO). Sole issue... get it now. Groan.

Is it too late for me to stop being combative and join in? I'm such a heel (if the shoe fits, right?) but maybe I can lace together a comeback although that would be quite a feet at this point...?

There's probably a 'soul' pun in there too.

It's kind of embarrassing to admit that I've been sitting on that one for quite a while trying to find a good time for it.

Next up: "to late axe in car"

no, you are correct. we should be looking at science in the same way. after all, scientific fact just depends on the agreed upon scientific paradigm at the time.

having children form their own opinions is one thing. allowing them to choose to not complete a proper education is another, and they are not the same thing, sorry.

agreed.

what's a better reason that's not based in selfishness?

no, i think critical thinking skills should be implemented in all forms of education (and that includes science). see my previous response.

agreed. i actually am worse than you think. i don't think that we should have traditional families at all any more. they are useless and cause more problems than they solve.

Do you believe that there are facts about reality that are not dependent upon human agreement for them to be true? Do you believe that humans have the ability to get access to such facts?

Do you believe that we should teach that the earth is flat along side of the possibility that the earth is not flat?

So basically they can only think for themselves and critically analyse, if they come to the same conclusions as you , ie the "right" ones?

what? no. i don't think you understand what critical thinking is if you are asking this question.

they aren't valid choices? then how are people choose them? obviously, they are valid, but you just disagree.

you should teach your kids about racism and homophobia, and you can teach them situations in which people act out on those beliefs and the implications that result. then let the kids decide what the best decision is. are you saying complete ignorance and avoidance is the better choice?

yes, i exaggerated, i know. however, your wife's hypocrisy is amusing to me.

if you are having sex, you should have discussed the possible consequences. if you haven't, you're an idiot. even if the kid is not planned, you should have agreements and arrangements in place BEFORE you started humping each other. sorry, but have some responsibility after all. we are talking about a human ****ing life here.

i never denied the primal urge to procreate. however, i'm under the impression that humans don't function solely on their primary urges anymore (let's hope not at least).

you can have kids for any reason you want. people do it all the time. it'll just be a selfish one, that's all. personally, i'd suggest getting a dog instead if your reason is based selfishness. you shouldn't be bringing a life into this world to make you and your spouse and your parents happy. giving birth to children should be for the child's sake - a selfless act. sorry if you disagree (pretty much everyone does - i know i'm the minority).

And you are happy for them to conclude that racism is right? What you seem to be saying is not

"you should teach your kids about racism and homophobia"

but

"you should teach your kids that racism and homophobia is wrong"

i kind of fall into the david hume camp on this one. we accept routine and repetition as a fact of truth and re-occurrence, but the fact is it isn't absolute truth. that's not to say we can't "accept" these "facts" and try to broaden and learn from them. however, when the next genius shows up and proves that einstein was a ****ing moron, we should be prepared for it.

no, but we should teach children that people used to think that and maybe some people still do. we can also use this example for why we shouldn't 100% believe that we KNOW some random fact, as obviously we can't know 100%. so, back to original argument, teaching a "belief" as a fact is doing just that, and that's why i see it as a major problem.

EDIT: actually, it's even worse (sorry, i had to include this)