When Should A Religious Belief Become Too Dangerous To Legally Teach To Children? - Page 10 - Religion, God, and Theology

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When Should A Religious Belief Become Too Dangerous To Legally Teach To Children?

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03-13-2014 , 06:59 PM

#226

Mightyboosh

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Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,565

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2

You want to broaden your children's palates in terms of questioning things? Maybe question every third thing? Only question things on Tuesdays? Did you forget what we were talking about?

There is no 'we' under discussion. We were discussing how you can get your kids to question things.

If they learn how to think critically, then they will think critically. It is really hard not to do so once you have learned how to.

Since you've now changed the subject to your desire for your kids to learn about different religions, the answer is equally easy. Teach them about all the religions. The analogy with the foods works. Doesn't matter at all that the schools have a limited lunch menu.

Fine, let's go back to this then - "MB, if you wanted to teach your kids to say "please" and "thank-you" the best way to do that is by you doing it in front of them." I don't agree. It's not the only way, it's not even the best way IMO.

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03-13-2014 , 09:25 PM

#227

BrianTheMick2

Long way to go and a short time to get there.

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 19,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mightyboosh

It is absolutely the best way. Better stated, it is an absolute requirement for anything resembling proper parenting.

I'm making a broad assumption that you also mention once why saying 'please' and 'thank you' is considered pleasant behavior if they too slow to be capable of figuring out why one ought do such a thing, and if they are extremely dull children that you remind them.

I'm also making the broad assumption that you, as a parent, don't act like a nutter and encourage them to say 'please' and 'thank-you' by hitting them with sticks when they utter 'please' or 'thank-you,' but instead act like a normal person and make a happy face.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parenting_practices

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03-14-2014 , 05:39 AM

#228

tame_deuces

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Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 18,347

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mightyboosh

So I tell you that I encourage my kids to think about things and this leads you to the conclusion that I might not even have kids.... right.

No, I wouldn't have doubted your stories if you had merely recounted that you encourage your children "to think about things". You have, however, claimed far more than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mightyboosh

Yes, you like to tell me things. I think you would have been best served in this instance by asking me questions though.

I doubt it. I don't read too much of your posts, when I do it is almost invariably a variation of "what I really meant". I stand by my statement: Critical thinking is best accompanied by simple precise statements and an open mind. This would also remove the need for long discussions about "what one really meant".

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03-14-2014 , 06:05 AM

#229

Mightyboosh

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Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,565

Quote:

Originally Posted by tame_deuces

No, I wouldn't have doubted your stories if you had merely recounted that you encourage your children "to think about things". You have, however, claimed far more than that.

This is very strange. I think I'll stop there though, can't guarantee that you'd get to the end of my post otherwise. Still can't really.

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03-14-2014 , 06:10 AM

#230

Mightyboosh

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Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,565

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2

It is absolutely the best way. Better stated, it is an absolute requirement for anything resembling proper parenting.

I'd agree that it's setting an example is a requirement, but that doesn't necessarily make it the 'best way'. We have more teaching tools at our disposal than other primates, such as language.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianTheMick2

I'm making a broad assumption that you also mention once why saying 'please' and 'thank you' is considered pleasant behavior if they too slow to be capable of figuring out why one ought do such a thing, and if they are extremely dull children that you remind them.

I'm also making the broad assumption that you, as a parent, don't act like a nutter and encourage them to say 'please' and 'thank-you' by hitting them with sticks when they utter 'please' or 'thank-you,' but instead act like a normal person and make a happy face.

Brian it's been fun but I'm done now. If there's a benefit to this exchange I'm not seeing it.

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03-14-2014 , 08:14 AM

#231

tame_deuces

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mightyboosh

This is very strange. I think I'll stop there though, can't guarantee that you'd get to the end of my post otherwise. Still can't really.

The problem there is that your posts rarely seem to very accurately reflect what you argue and any conversation degrade into "what MB really meant". I can't really see any good reasons why. The subject is simple, the anecdotes are simple and the evidence is most likely simple. Why not simply state over a couple of sentences what it is you want to convey?

Here is how I would have stated your claims: Letting children themselves decide whether something is correct or incorrect will lead to them having superior reasoning skills later in life.

One sentence. A simple testable claim that is easily challenged and hard to misinterpret. No hundreds of posts in dozens of threads over several years arguing back and forth on rhetorical quibbles.

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03-14-2014 , 08:29 AM

#232

Mightyboosh

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Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,565

Quote:

Originally Posted by tame_deuces

If it's that simple, why the need to state it? It's not that simple though as this thread proved and you have it wrong anyway, somewhat astonishingly, since I have stated and restated exactly what I mean multiple times ITT and everyone else understands what I mean even if they don't agree with the definitions I've used or whether I myself display the ability to think critically (which is a digression anyway), but I have no desire to repeat my point to show you why you're wrong. Perhaps that's because you just told me that you don't always read my posts fully. Scratch that, it's definitely because of that.

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03-14-2014 , 08:57 AM

#233

tame_deuces

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mightyboosh

You misunderstand me, or I express myself poorly. If I am conversing with you, I read your posts in full. I, however, tend not to read many of your posts. This is because they tend revolve around a very narrow set of 2-3 issues and almost invariably read almost identically: You claim to have been misinterpreted and try to fend off rather than address criticism.

As for starting your point with a rhetorical question, I think that in itself is very elegant evidence why the remainder of your post should not be taken seriously.

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03-14-2014 , 12:08 PM

#234

uke_master

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Not sure how important this is to this cluster**** of a thread, but leading by example whole important is obviously not the only parenting tool out there and on its own insufficient for a lot of things.

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03-14-2014 , 12:23 PM

#235

Mightyboosh

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Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,565

Quote:

Originally Posted by tame_deuces

I wish there was an emoticon for 'why are you bothering to write this stuff', but hey, thanks for explaining what you actually meant. Perhaps you should be more clear the first time in future.

Here's how I would have stated your claim - "I don't read too much of your posts, except for when I'm actually conversing with you and then I read them in full". There, one sentence, simple.

I'm going for a pint.

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03-14-2014 , 02:54 PM

#236

BrianTheMick2

Long way to go and a short time to get there.

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 19,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

The discussion was narrowly focused on him wanting to encourage a specific simple behavior.

I made the broad assumption that he will do the normal parenting things of "explaining things" and "encouragement" when appropriate.

I also was not implying that you can teach kids calculus by doing calculus in front of them.

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03-18-2014 , 07:39 AM

#237

Shandrax

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Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 4,818

I think they should stop teaching kids the jewish religion. You got to start somewhere after all. I hope Mason doesn't get mad at me for saying that

Now what's the point of my posting? We usually want others to change, don't we?

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03-18-2014 , 08:52 AM

#238

Robin Agrees

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Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,310

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shandrax

I think they should stop teaching kids the jewish religion. You got to start somewhere after all. I hope Mason doesn't get mad at me for saying that

Now what's the point of my posting? We usually want others to change, don't we?

What should we teach them?

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03-19-2014 , 10:25 AM

#239

k_trigs

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 98

https://theconversation.com/why-chil...ilosophy-23404

scroll down to critical thinking section (but whole article is obviously good)

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03-19-2014 , 11:37 AM

#240

neeeel

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Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,731

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_trigs

https://theconversation.com/why-chil...ilosophy-23404

scroll down to critical thinking section (but whole article is obviously good)

dunno, doesnt sound a lot like critical thinking to me.

Quote:

Harvey Siegel notes:

A critical thinker, then, is one who is appropriately moved by reasons: she has the propensity or disposition to believe and act in accordance with reasons; and she has the ability to properly assess the force of reasons in the many contexts in which reasons play a role.

What is being "appropriately" moved by reasons? Reasons is a very vague concept. People have reasons to be theist, for example, but most atheists would say that they arent using critical thinking to arrive at theism.

Quote:

This is compatible with the nine values listed in the national framework for schools, which include: care and compassion; integrity; doing your best; respect; fair go; responsibility; freedom; understanding, tolerance and inclusion; honesty and trustworthiness. In order to possess these qualities, one would need to develop the skills to think in this way.

Sounds like they have a target, and are teaching people to arrive at that target, rather than teaching critical thinking. Critical thinking leaves open whether the above values are warranted, and leaves open the possibility of arriving at alternative points of view or values.

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03-21-2014 , 04:19 PM

#241

Shandrax

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Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 4,818

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Agrees

What should we teach them?

Just teach everyone the law of physics and common law. That's good enough. On a sunny day you can also teach some ethics, but not too much, because it makes unsuccessful in life.