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What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism.
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04-17-2013 , 02:03 AM
#176
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Keep digging yourself deeper.
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 02:33 AM
#177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish
Keep digging yourself deeper.
You appear to be missing the point. The Steady State Theory was inspired by a science fiction film but it seems to be begging the question to invoke infinity (Infinite universe) anyway. Secondly we humanoids have a tenuous maybe even dubious grasp on what life is in the first place so confidently asserting stuff like the theory of evolution as fact is a bit forward of us. Ptolemy was probably just as confident about his geocentric universe 2,000 years ago.
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 02:57 AM
#178
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No I'm not. Amongst other errors, you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
A theory is just guesswork eg my alternative theory of gravity might be that objects are stuck to the earth by invisible glue.
In the context of science, this is WRONG. The origination of a particular conjecture or hypothesis, whether inspired from a novel or from watching a piece of fruit drop to the ground, is irrelevant. It does not become a SCIENTIFIC THEORY until there is supporting evidence.

Such definitions are trivially easy to discover.
Last edited by BeaucoupFish; 04-17-2013 at 02:59 AM. Reason: As more data is gathered, a theory might later become disproven. Or it might become even more supported.
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 03:12 AM
#179
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Whenever someone in real life uses the phrase "it's just a theory" to describe a scientific theory, I walk away. I need to walk away before I grab the nearest stapler and staple my ears shut. Even that's more enjoyable than listening to these scientifically illiterate zombies.

Another favorite I like to use is: "Do you believe in the germ theory of disease? It's just a theory after all and modern medicine is probably all just an elaborate hoax...." - p.s. sarcasm helps.
Last edited by VeeDDzz`; 04-17-2013 at 03:18 AM.
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 03:16 AM
#180
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It's usually pretty stupid people that say 'evolution is just a theory'. Well not so much stupid as merely parroting the dumbest thing they heard that day.
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 03:20 AM
#181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
It's usually pretty stupid people that say 'evolution is just a theory'. Well not so much stupid as merely parroting the dumbest thing they heard that day.
They're definitely smart enough to avoid making such claims when it comes to the germ theory of disease. It's only where evolution is concerned that "it's just a theory".
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 03:54 AM
#182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish
No I'm not. Amongst other errors, you said:

In the context of science, this is WRONG. The origination of a particular conjecture or hypothesis, whether inspired from a novel or from watching a piece of fruit drop to the ground, is irrelevant. It does not become a SCIENTIFIC THEORY until there is supporting evidence.

Such definitions are trivially easy to discover.
It works the other way around. People observe phenomena and scientists come up with wacko theories to fit which are only discarded when they are proved wrong.
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 04:49 AM
#183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
It works the other way around. People observe phenomena and scientists come up with wacko theories to fit which are only discarded when they are proved wrong.
They come up with wacko hypotheses, not theories. A scientific theory is an explanation for something - backed by evidence. A non-scientific theory however is nothing more than a hypothesis. Please understand the distinction between a hypothesis, a scientific theory and a non-scientific theory.

The reason a scientific theory is "not just a theory" is because the scientific method is highly rigorous and follows rules and procedures that are designed to eliminate all possible bias or contamination that is present in non-scientific theories. Not only this however, but a scientific theory also demands that it is 'falsifiable' (open to be disproved) and that it offers some sort of prediction (concerning whatever the topic is) and that it is backed by VERY large amounts of evidence. The difference between a non-scientific theory and a scientific theory is nearly equivalent to the difference between an opinion and a fact.
Last edited by VeeDDzz`; 04-17-2013 at 05:00 AM.
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 09:32 AM
#184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
It works the other way around. People observe phenomena and scientists come up with wacko theories to fit which are only discarded when they are proved wrong.
Why do you have such hatred of scientists? Shouldn't theists just leave scientists alone when they propose theories. I can't believe you'd be so hateful as to attack scientists who are, by definition, more knowledgeable and therefore more right than us by the fact that they think a lot.
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 10:25 AM
#185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDDzz`
You said "by killing religion you will destroy atheism itself". For this statement to hold true it is erroneously assumed that atheism falls in the same category as religions...... hence the picture.
Holy ****. Had to stop when I saw this. Someone is on the verge of understanding OP!

I agree. New Atheism is a religion. The atheist I was in my teens, that was not a religion. The atheist my brother is now, the vocal (Majority maybe, I don't move in those circles) is a religion.

I know people that the very mention of the word God, will throw them into a fit of rage.

Others just troll people giving away their hard work and study.

Historically, it all seems so cyclical, it makes me sick. I think we all need to believe in something.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 10:40 AM
#186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDDzz`
They're definitely smart enough to avoid making such claims when it comes to the germ theory of disease. It's only where evolution is concerned that "it's just a theory".
D***, caught back up and now I'm disappointed.

He must have slept in a Holiday Inn Express when he made that other post.

Evolution is not a theory. Just a word. Make an actual theory, and we can go from there. I think, if you make an accurate theory, relevant to the discussion, you would be surprised to find that science is not on your side.

You can show how a wolf made a dog(micro-evolution), but no matter how long you breed wolves, you will never get a chicken(macro-evolution).

It's ok, I am not always on the side of science either. Like your example.

I am one person who is not convinced by germ theory. I'm not saying there are not germs, but they are there all the time. Trillions and trillions of them. I think there is an environmental change(meaning local germ environment), or even a psychological change that is the cause of sickness, or in some cases, a particularly nasty bug.
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 12:49 PM
#187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
Why do you have such hatred of scientists? Shouldn't theists just leave scientists alone when they propose theories. I can't believe you'd be so hateful as to attack scientists who are, by definition, more knowledgeable and therefore more right than us by the fact that they think a lot.

You don't understand scientific method. If you do not criticise stuff which might be wrong then things like microwave ovens would never work.
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 01:03 PM
#188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaAttaks2010
Evolution is not a theory. Just a word. Make an actual theory, and we can go from there. I think, if you make an accurate theory, relevant to the discussion, you would be surprised to find that science is not on your side.

You can show how a wolf made a dog(micro-evolution), but no matter how long you breed wolves, you will never get a chicken(macro-evolution).
No, you're completely wrong. The theory of evolution is correct and has been verified by multiple fields of science. Search this forum for many prior threads on this topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaAttaks2010
I am one person who is not convinced by germ theory. I'm not saying there are not germs, but they are there all the time. Trillions and trillions of them. I think there is an environmental change(meaning local germ environment), or even a psychological change that is the cause of sickness, or in some cases, a particularly nasty bug.
If you don't think that germs are the cause of many diseases in humans, then I think you might be beyond help. How can you disagree with this in light of the mountains of evidence?
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 02:12 PM
#189
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The start of this tangent, cwocwoc questioning why we need to teach children about evolution:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
How many months, weeks, days or hours were taken up studying "evolution" at your school ? From memory I got most of my knowledge of it from the television.
Thanks to him for demonstrating exactly why we should be doing a better job at educating our children.

Or this new poster, who seems to think you could find a wolf that gives birth to a dog (doing so would falsify the ToE - in fact, the majority of creationist descriptions of ToE would falsify the theory, if they were actually describing it accurately).
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 02:17 PM
#190
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Cwoc, why don't you just post a link to a qualified scientific source that states that a scientific theory does not require supporting evidence.

Alternatively, be an honest and moral person that you claim to be, and accept that you were wrong, and that you learnt something here. Don't you think that someone that admits their errors is a better person than one who doesn't?
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 02:56 PM
#191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish
The start of this tangent, cwocwoc questioning why we need to teach children about evolution:


Thanks to him for demonstrating exactly why we should be doing a better job at educating our children.

Or this new poster, who seems to think you could find a wolf that gives birth to a dog (doing so would falsify the ToE - in fact, the majority of creationist descriptions of ToE would falsify the theory, if they were actually describing it accurately).
Well, I guess this brain surgeon just "falsified the ToE" or whatever he is blathering about because:

Wolf = Dog

All wolves give birth to dogs. Am I missing something?
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04-17-2013 , 03:24 PM
#192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganstaman
No, you're completely wrong. The theory of evolution is correct and has been verified by multiple fields of science. Search this forum for many prior threads on this topic.



If you don't think that germs are the cause of many diseases in humans, then I think you might be beyond help. How can you disagree with this in light of the mountains of evidence?
OT Reply

Spoiler:
This is a bit off topic, but in short, no I do not believe individual micro organisms are responsible for our health problems, its more like a symptom. Like, being run down, hanging out with sick people, poor nutrition etc, all make you susceptible. There are trillions and trillions of these micro organisms, probably just on your face, right now. We are swimming in them 24/7. Many of them we need. 99% of the genetic material in your body is from micro organisms, not your own cells. Any number of these could make you sick, if you give them an environment to grow and multiply. Trying to kill the pathogen, without addressing the cause, will still leave a vulnerability, and the next pathogen will move in.

I am not against research, and I am not trying to invalidate your mountains of evidence.

We do not know nearly enough about how a healthy body deals with the healthy micro organisms, let alone the dangerous ones. We are very happy that we can isolate a germ, and blast it with drugs, but by and large, sick people stay sick, and healthy people stay healthy.

We are in an arms race with micro organisms. Silly. We are spending billions researching drugs that are rapidly becoming ineffective. We all pay the price. Alternatives are legislated or regulated away.
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04-17-2013 , 03:50 PM
#193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaAttaks2010
Well, I guess this brain surgeon just "falsified the ToE" or whatever he is blathering about because:

Wolf = Dog

All wolves give birth to dogs. Am I missing something?
This is a rather dishonest interpretation of my comment, but I can't say I'm surprised. You said "You can show how a wolf made a dog". Are you suggesting that what you meant by this was "You can show how a wolf made a wolf" or "You can show how a dog made a dog"? If so, then congratulations, you are stating the obvious and the mundane. If you were actually talking about wolves evolving into modern dogs, my comment stands; you will not find a wolf that gives birth to a modern dog breed. It is an ancestor of the wolf that gives birth to a modern dog breed.

Species (as far as reproduction compatibility goes) are not fixed boundaries. After a thousand generations, an organism may no longer be able to reproduce with the original generation, but might still be compatible with the 500th generation. After another 500 generations, that 1500th organism might be able to breed with the 1000th generation, but not with the 500th generation. This is evolution. There is no artificial boundary that prevents further generations from evolving.
Last edited by BeaucoupFish; 04-17-2013 at 03:50 PM. Reason: IANAB - I am not a biologist
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 04:06 PM
#194
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btw, I think modern dogs are an interesting example. When creationists talk about microevolution, or change within limits, and refer to dogs, they will say "they are all still dog kinds". But if the creationist was not already familiar with the vast array of modern dog breeds currently around today and you showed them the diversity of shapes and sizes and bone structures of modern breeds, from a few inches long to hundreds of pounds in weight, flat muzzles, long pointed muzzles, tails, no tails. Throw in some similar-looking animals from other species and ask the creationist to identify which animals were of the same "kind", and what the limits were, I don't think they'd know where to start.
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 04:23 PM
#195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish
Cwoc, why don't you just post a link to a qualified scientific source that states that a scientific theory does not require supporting evidence.

Alternatively, be an honest and moral person that you claim to be, and accept that you were wrong, and that you learnt something here. Don't you think that someone that admits their errors is a better person than one who doesn't?

"the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously"

[wiki]
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 04:25 PM
#196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
"the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously"

[wiki]
Dishonesty, thy name is Cwocwoc.

Full quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki
Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory.
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 04:30 PM
#197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
"the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously"

[wiki]
Oh good, now we're quote mining. Allow me to include everything else you edited out:

Quote:
Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory. A scientific hypothesis is a proposed explanation of a phenomenon which still has to be rigorously tested. In contrast, a scientific theory has undergone extensive testing and is generally accepted to be the accurate explanation behind an observation.[1] A working hypothesis is a provisionally accepted hypothesis proposed for further research.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothesis

Your attempts at dishonesty are getting mighty lazy.
Last edited by Alchemist; 04-17-2013 at 04:31 PM. Reason: meh, slow ponied by asdf
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04-17-2013 , 04:31 PM
#198
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Yes! I finally slow ponied someone.
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04-17-2013 , 05:24 PM
#199
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Incredible hypocrisy on display ITT
What is the difference between genuine Atheism and New Atheism. Quote
04-17-2013 , 06:09 PM
#200
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"the words "dishonest ****" and "cwocwoc" are often used synonymously"

[rgt posters]



Stand by for "Atheists just can't take a joke" excuse in 3....2....1....
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