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Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God

06-22-2010 , 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunth0807
I don't believe in what i don't know.

If i did not know who the president of the U.S. is, i would be wrong to believe a certain person is president.
But you would not be wrong to claim that you do not believe a certain individual is president.

Seriously, I don't even get it anymore. The NT doesn't tell you that you must not understand easy to grasp subtleties of logic and the English language, does it?
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganstaman
But you would not be wrong to claim that you do not believe a certain individual is president.

Seriously, I don't even get it anymore. The NT doesn't tell you that you must not understand easy to grasp subtleties of logic and the English language, does it?
I would be wrong to claim that i do not believe a certain individual is president, if i do not know who the president is.

I don't understand the 2nd part of your post.
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunth0807
I think i have said all i have to say.
This is intellectually dishonest. You make a claim. I ask a question that would show your claim to be false. You refuse to answer my question, but without showing that my question is not well-formed or pertinent.

However, if you like, here it is again. I am not asking whether there is an even number of stars. To that question it is appropriate to say that you don't know. I am asking whether you believe there is an even number of stars. Here, unless you are uncertain about your belief (and really, I can't see why you would be), you should be able to answer the question.
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 08:37 PM
I am not being dishonest here one bit. If anything you are hating the fact that i am being completely honest.

You are dishonest by saying i refuse to answer your question. I have answered your question, all though it seems like it is not an answer you would like to hear.

Your question is not saying anything.
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunth0807
I am not being dishonest here one bit. If anything you are hating the fact that i am being completely honest.

You are dishonest by saying i refuse to answer your question. I have answered your question, all though it seems like it is not an answer you would like to hear.

Your question is not saying anything.
If you were being honest, you would either answer my question or give a good reason why you won't. You have done neither. You have answered other questions i didn't ask. For instance, you have made sure to let me know that you are uncertain whether there is an even or odd number of stars. I also am unsure about this. However, my question was about your beliefs. Namely, do you believe that there is an even number of stars. As I said before I do not believe there is an even number of stars.

Listen to that again. I don't know whether there is an even number of stars. I do not believe that there is an even number of stars. These two claims do not contradict each other. The reason why is because, like you, I don't believe things that I am aware that I don't know.
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-In Flynn
"Absence of, or rejection of, belief in the existence of gods."

Havin' trouble with the word 'or' there, lew? That's okay, we can go again.

"...also defined more broadly as an absence of belief in deities..."

Maybe 'more broadly' is what's tripping you up? Never mind, I'm confident you can manage the last one:

"Atheism. Either the lack of belief in a god, or the belief that there is none."

But hey, for all I know you're camped outside 'gas' stations with a placard saying "IT'S A LIQUID! DON'T BELIEVE THEIR LIES!" Some people just have problems that way.

But in case you're interested, 'agnostic' derives from the ancient Greek 'gnosis', meaning 'knowledge'. In modern parlance it refers to claims of knowledge about god. I do not claim to have knowledge about god, and I consider it at least currently impossible for anyone to have objectively verifiable proof of a god - so I am indeed, as you say, and as I have continuously affirmed, an agnostic. On the other hand, I don't have a belief in a deity, so - per the definitions pasted above, which you seem to have had so much trouble understanding - I'm also an atheist. It's really not that hard.
"The belief that there are no gods." Based on this definition, which I "believe," you are not atheist, right?

It's annoying that you're starting to act like a dick when I feel like you are doing exactly what you're accusing me of. You're hiding behind bs definitions that nobody uses on the planet except, apparently, people in this forum. My definition is above and based on what you've stated, you're an agnostic and not an atheist.

To quote another (brilliant) poster in this thread, why do YOU care what I label you anyway? I'm just some moron who is dumb enough to believe that the evidence suggests to me that it is more likely that there is a God than that there is not a God. I'm not worth your time.

Last edited by lew189; 06-22-2010 at 08:59 PM.
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 08:53 PM
Quote:
If you were being honest, you would either answer my question or give a good reason why you won't. You have done neither.
I did give you a reason why i couldn't answer. Which was:
Quote:
I am not qualified at this time to believe whether or not it is odd or even.
Quote:
Yes i could believe it is odd or even as a whole, but for me to believe it is one side over the other is wishful thinking.
I am sorry you don't like my answer or think it is good, but that is my answer.

I also would like to point out that i have answered this as honestly as i possibly could. If i were to answer it any other way, i would be dishonest.
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lew189
"The belief that there are no gods." Based on this definition, which I "believe," you are not atheist, right?
Based on what definition?
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lew189
"The belief that there are no gods." Based on this definition, which I "believe," you are not atheist, right?
The definition of Christianity has changed and has been ever changing. Does this mean you also object to some Christians calling themselves Christians who dont fit the traditional definition of Christianity?

I mean definitions change, suck it up.
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-In Flynn
Based on what definition?
"The belief that there are no gods."
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
The definition of Christianity has changed and has been ever changing.
How so?
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunth0807
How so?
Do some research i wont do it for you.
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunth0807
I did give you a reason why i couldn't answer. Which was:

Quote:
I am not qualified at this time to believe whether or not it is odd or even.

Yes i could believe it is odd or even as a whole, but for me to believe it is one side over the other is wishful thinking.
I am sorry you don't like my answer or think it is good, but that is my answer.
Yes. Those don't directly answer my question--they are responses to different questions, such as, "Are you qualified to believe that the number of stars is even?" However, maybe this form of the question will elicit an answer. Do you believe something if you are not qualified to believe it?
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lew189
"The belief that there are no gods."
Do you own a car?
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
The definition of Christianity has changed and has been ever changing. Does this mean you also object to some Christians calling themselves Christians who dont fit the traditional definition of Christianity?

I mean definitions change, suck it up.
I'm talking about what I believe to be the definition accepted by the majority of people today.

"The belief that there are no gods."
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-In Flynn
Do you own a car?
Yes. Well, no, but my company does.
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lew189
Yes. Well, no, but my company does.
But you drive a car?
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lew189
I'm talking about what I believe to be the definition accepted by the majority of people today.

"The belief that there are no gods."
The majority of Christians say Mormons aren't Christians, do you think they are?
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-In Flynn
But you drive a car?
I do.
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Position
Yes. Those don't directly answer my question--they are responses to different questions, such as, "Are you qualified to believe that the number of stars is even?" However, maybe this form of the question will elicit an answer. Do you believe something if you are not qualified to believe it?
No, not if i am honest with myself. Which is exactly why i could not believe that Jesus was The Son of God at first, even though i knew God exists.

Do you live with someone? Are you married?
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lew189
I do.
Merriam-Webster sez:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merriam-Webster
the part of an airship or balloon that carries the passengers and cargo
You shouldn't go around saying you drive a car IMO.
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
The majority of Christians say Mormons aren't Christians, do you think they are?
My definition of "Christian" is probably different than most. I would say that it depends on the Mormon. I think of Christians as people who follow the teachings of Christ in their interactions with other people. I would imagine some Mormons do this but most don't, just like any other religion (including those that most vehemently argue their Christianity while condemning others.)
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-In Flynn
Merriam-Webster sez:



You shouldn't go around saying you drive a car IMO.
You're proving my point for me yet again. That definition is clearly not the definition considered by most people.

Is this what the argument has come to? I assign the definition most people commonly associate with a term and you assign an obscure one because you think it's cool to call yourself something you're not?
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunth0807
No, not if i am honest with myself. Which is exactly why i could not believe that Jesus was The Son of God at first.
Excellent! So. You have acknowledged that you are not qualified to believe that there is an even number of stars. Assuming you are being honest with yourself, that means that you do not believe that there is an even number of stars. Now, do you believe that there is not an even number of stars?

To help you out, I will say that just like you I do not believe that there is an even number of stars. However, I also do not believe that there is not an even number of stars. Feel free to crib from my answer.
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote
06-22-2010 , 09:10 PM
AIF, you believe God could exist?
Serious question, how can anyone in this day and age who is somewhat intelligent believe in God Quote

      
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