is everyone really that bad at reading comprehension? surely you can't be reading hand one right and advocating a fold right? He has a big stack, and probably doesn't play very much poker- he's in 'omg pokers are easy' mood and is gonna try some crazy plays b/c he saw them on tv. I feel like this guy flips up kto or something plenty... but even if u give him a stnd nitty tag range that includes t9s, a9s etc its a very easy shove- you have 4x pot and 2p... wtf?

also i don't understand not c/ring flop w/ reads

my experience always results in running into the nuts when its live when people put in large amounts of money on this board w/o a flushdraw

40bb /= large amnts of $$ imo

edit: esp to chipleader

Hand 1: I fold, I think you are very likely crushed based on your description.


Hand 2: I play this hand a bit different. Given stack sizes, I go like this, I bet 3,500 on the flop and I shove the turn. With two overcards and about 2 PSB left, I am trying to take it down. When you bet this river, I guess you are looking to get called by a smaller pair?

im w durrrr on 1

i cant imagine folding hand1, & i think i would bet riv on hand2, but i dont think its a good bet.

I've never played over $200 buyin live, but this is true like always. I would definitely fold hand 1.

Hand 1: I disagree when you say the player described isn't calling preflop with TT+. That's not an auto raise to nitty live players. Same thing with JJ.

I mostly don't fold 86 just because there are very few hands that beat you, and you have blockers for 2 of the sets that beat you. I think it's really close, and am certainly worried that the guy after us will occasionally show up with a set too.

Hand 2: Hate your amount on the river. Either bet small, like 1400, and lock up your call from ace high, or bet 8k, and make it look like a bluff, while still getting the occasionally call from ace high, or maybe even fold from 99.

Edit: Hand 1 partially comes down to one of the easiest live reads IMO. During that minute and a half, is he actually thinking/debating, or just posturing? Usually that much is relatively easy to figure out. If he's really thinking, it becomes a lot less likely that he has a set.

I like the last bit zeejustin says on hand 1. I've been thinking about the kind of hand i put him on here and I think in live play a strait forward player is not rr JJ/TT here preflop. Now when the flop comes all low cards I think his plan was to c/r or see it check thru and bet most turns. However when you bet a decent amount and the other player calls now he's sitting here like "wow i have to think about this, can i just call here?" Which despite the nit in him he decides he cant. Now like zeejustin said, if it seems like he's acting I'm more likly to give credit and fold. Also could you see his pulse? Where were his eyes looking before and after he bet? Did he look away, at your chips, at his chips etc? Also did he verbally declare raise when normally not doing so, or vice versa. I think hand 1 is very read based and any signs that point to not having a set i stick it in.

There was thinking involved, but i couldnt tell if it was thinking or posturing on account of my being unsure whether or not he could feasibly have an "easy decision" ever. This goes in the category of "stuff like live players are way better at than me that i could benefit from learning".

I base this read off a hand earlier in day 1 when villain in question bets the flop and calls a shove from a shortie postflop with T7ss on a T87dd board. except after he bet, the raise allin was for a minraise, and villain tanked for a minute or so b4 calling bc when the a8 guy improved he said "I just knew i was going to get sucked out on".

Anyways after playing with hand 1 villain for part of day 2 I think folding is now worse than prior, though I like the CR option best.

He told me in hand 1 he had 53dd (LIES) and half confirmed this when he took a spewy line in a raised pot vs a nitty frenchy.

villain raises ep, frenchie calls LP. flop Q63hh, villain b/3b and frenchie just calls. turn Kh, check check. river 6, villain shoves into frenchie who tanks and folds AQdd. Villain shows AJcc.

So it could be feasible that this particular villain fit the description of "totally str8forward and ABC until once every five hours when he decides to be a total spaz".

results:

lol u cant have them yet, but check my blog if u genuinely care.

Hand 1 is a easy to moderate fold most of the time here.

Betting the river on hand 2 just seems like a terrible, terrible idea. I mean you're basically hoping he has 77 or worse here *AND* that he'll call 4k with it. This isn't the spot for thin value imo, especially with your stack. Just check behind and scoop the pot the majority of time to his complete whiff.

also agree with this

Hand 2 I bet turn and check back river

hand 1 all in, hand 2 check.

What do people have against a tiny river bet in hand 2? Like 1400ish.

Are you saying bet 1400 and call a shove?

While the bluff shove does not seem too likely from an uncreative nit anyone who can hand read knows that we have nothing and it also seems very likely that he can not have any real hand planning on check-raising the river after checking the first two streets...

You definitely have more live experience than me though so I would defer to you if you say that live players never bluff shove this river if we bet small.


Also Justin, on hand one I just don't see how, even after discounting for the fact that we have blockers to the bottom two sets, it is more likely that he has QQ/JJ/TT/77 than he has a set. Plus we are only 75/25 when he has the overpair and we are totally boned when he has the set (and obviously button can have a set too)... For the record, do you think that we should 3-bet shove the flop in hand one? If we shove do you think he ever gets off his JJ/QQ?

When I say bet turn I mean smallish. About 2500 and like ZJ said I love 1800-2500 on the river if I check turn
-Inyaface

hand 1 is a shove, dont have time to look at 2 yet. By saying he is ABC you have essentially eliminated all clean hands that beat you sans 99. As ZJ said, 88 and 66 are blocked too. Pooosh.

jurollo,

my abc comment stems from his preflop raising standards and postflop aggression standards

i cant comment on his defending standards. as bond notes, live players tend to defend too often because they get a discount, and the button flatted.

but regardless, i cant specifically note his defending standards, and neither can anyone from the brief history between us at that point

I would probably fold hand 1. I don't think he would play TT like this very often. Also I like betting opposed to checking to the argo player because he could easily check a flop like this in a 3 way pot.

Hand 2 I'd check river but I like ZJustin's line of a super small value bet.

Hand 1: I think you need an incredibly strong read to fold 2 pair with only 40 big blinds. Guys like this can show up with all sorts of stuff.

i was afraid of saying to shove hand 1 because ive played no mtt's in the last 6 months and was sure i was just rusty as hell

but i think TT/JJ are just way too likely