I have never really been a regular lifter, never lifted consistently over 6 months. For the last 2 months I have been following a beginners programme from:
http://www.amazon.com/Mens-Health-Mu...776091&sr=1-11


It is all just isolation exercises, should I build continue on this programme or scrap it and buy starting strength or some other similar book.

I have squated and deadlifted before. I can't really do the back squat, is it much better than the front squat?

The most important program is the one that helps you regularly be physically active. Take some time to ask yourself what you want to accomplish. Keep track of your progress or lack thereof.

Ditto what Shemp said. If doing a bunch of heavy lifts will make you quit in 2 weeks but you'll enjoy and do the iso for 2 years then just do that because at least you'll be doing something. It all depends on your goals, which is something you failed to mention in your primary post on interval training. If you are interested in Starting Strength check out the link in the sticky before buying the book. The book may not even be necessary at this stage of your training.

In essence both have their purposes. However, doing only iso exercises will allow you to miss out on bigger and better lifts.

Look into Rippetoes starting strength program

You get to a point where you can start putting your own splits together but any beginner program such as SS will be very optimal.

And what do you mean you can't do the back squat? What is hindering you from doing it?

Stick with front squat.

Add compound exercises. It is senseless for a beginner to do nothing but isolation exercises. Add isolation exercises after you have been working out for a while and can tailor them more effectively to your goals. All programs should be based upon compound exercises though.

For what it's worth, and for anyone interested in sports and practical strength it would be worth something, compound lifts are also important in that they teach you how to use your body to apply power in a coordinated fashion. Neuromuscular coordination is a large part of strength and power, and if you exercise your body parts in isolation, they won't have built up that ability to work together that comes only with practice. There are not all that many athletic things -- or just lifting around the house -- that one does with one muscle only, so you might as well make the most of your effective strength by doing compound lifts rather than the least of it by doing isolation lifts.

Plus, isolation lifts tend not to encourage systemic hormone release the way compound lifts, and that hormone release can do half of your work for you when it comes to putting on mass and burning fat. It's a hugely productive freebie to be ignoring.

Cheers guys,

I have decided to try to put my own programme together, mostly just copying a programme from t-nation but with a few personal tweaks. I want the best of both worlds, strength and size.

I plan to do weights 4 times a week:
1 mostly upper body compounds, reps 4-6, sets 4
1 mostly lower body compounds, reps 4-6, sets 4

not sure how many exercises yet but want to keep each exercise at an hour

1 upper body isolation, reps 8-12, sets 4
1 lower body isolation, reps 8-12, sets 4

Abs every workout.

I plan to do the same compounds for the next year, small changes, flat bench-incline etc. I will also use a few training principles every week to keep gaining, eg waved sets,
pyramid sets etc.

I will change the isolation workouts every 4 weeks and will also do some changing of intensity as above.

I like to have a long term plan.

Cardio:
Probably 2 HIIT/week
maybe:
1 HIIT
1 LIIT

or
1 HIIT
1 long run

I work out at home so equipment is an issue. This is why I can't really back squat as I have a bench press/squat rack and the bars are too close to back squat from. Hopefully as I improve my flexibility this will change. I have all the basics though:
Bench with incline/decline
Dumbbells X10
Barbbells X3
Treadmill
Pull up bar
Swiss Ball
Ez-bar
Tricep Bar
Weight plates total:250kg
Mats and steps and ****

shieler,

Goto the thread "How to make Health and Fitness Better" and read the last post by tsearcher. See "Resistance Training."

Starting Strength seems to be the way to go. I know that size is a side effect of training for strength and vice versa but would it not be better to include some isolation exercise, about 25% of total, for greater definition and strength in the weaker/smaller muscles.

I'll give it more thought as I will start my new programme on Monday but would you give my potential programme a quick run over and see if you reckon it would work in theory.

There is a reason why it's better to follow a tried-and-tested program, rather than creating your own.

Here's a quick response, and I'm not doing it to be an *******.

As a beginner why would you "tweak?" Quit trying to think you are extra special. Get strong first, then get fancy.

We all do. While starting out it's best to build a base of strength. Size and physique improvements will accompany strength training.

This is fine.

Uh ok. What compounds are you talking about? Free weights? Machines? What movements? What intensity? 4 sets total?

What the hell kinda programming is that?

Wasted days, imo.

Why would you train abs every day? Are your abs a special muscle that recover super-quickly?

Fancy-play-syndrome. Focus on simple progressions and strength gains. As a beginner the simplest things are the most effective.

What changing of intensity as above?

Good.

This is fine.

Ok. This answers one of my above questions. Your equpment can be used for SS.

Again, even "25%" isolation is a waste of time until you get strong and big in general. Definition is a function of muscle mass and body fat. Don't think about weaker and smaller muscles until most of your body is developed. Quit thinking about your "bicep peak" until you can do 15 pullups, etc.

Quick note: "Beginner" is not a pejorative term.

Upper body compounds:
pull/chin ups
bench press
shoulder press

lower body:
squat
deadlift
cleans

4 sets/exercise


Change of intensity/use of principles: changing the no. of sets/reps/how the weight is lifted/changing weights lifted/lifting order etc


I meant for the actual workout to be 1 hour, not including warm ups/stretches.

I can do 15 pull ups btw, can't bench **** though

You are right though, I am getting way ahead of myself, I am not in too bad shape atm 85kg with about 10% bf, but I am not in a position to think about sculpting anything.

Is there any need to ever deviate from compound exercises only since I see from the make H&F better thread that 5X5 is the next port of call?

Is there any need to buy the book starting strength or is there enough info in the stickys? I see one can download it anyway if one is that way inclinded....

This post is all over the shop!!

Read the FAQ in the sticky. It should be plenty for now. If you want to buy the book, by all means do so, but it isn't 100% necessary.

As for isolation... You said you can't bench anything already. I would assume this goes for a lot of your workouts. Just to paraphrase from the SS FAQ, Beginner's don't have any biceps, triceps, whatever other muscle you want to "isolate" to begin with, in which case doing so would basically be a waste of time.

for beginner's, if you start worrying about bringing up lagging minor body parts you aren't going to go very far. What did you have in mind exactly? I'm pretty sure your concern will be addressed using an exercise that is part of the program.

Forearms? Deadlifts, pullups, rows
Biceps? Chinups
Triceps and shoulders? Presses every workout
calves? you can work these with power cleans, but if you're not doing pc, then I don't see anything wrong with 1-2 sets of 8 or so once in awhile.
traps? power cleans, deadlifts to an extent. If you're not doing pc, shrugs would be fine once a week for 1-2 sets.


You shouldn't make time for isolation work by cutting down or cutting out the main lifts in the program. Keep the main workout, and screw with the accessory exercises. Make sure to keep them at low volume so they don't interfere with the main lifts. Don't do every accessory exercise each workout either.

Working out isn't about destroying your muscles each workout, it is about progressively loading your muscles over time. You don't need to do much work as a beginner to adapt and be ready for a heavier load by the next workout, and it certainly doesn't require a week to be ready. When you stop making newbie gains you enter territory where you progress more slowly and require more work to get there. But even then, you apply that work over several workouts.

imo that book is probably the best money you could ever spend on weightlifting. It devotes something like 60+ pages just on the squat, and most of it is text. The program is just kinda something that was thrown in at the end as a simple and effective program for beginners. The book is a highly detailed text on proper form for the basic compound exercises.

Yea I highly recommend the 2nd edition of the book.

another vote for starting strength, you can learn something even if you have been lifting for a long time.

I am convinced, I am going to buy the book. One question though: why does Arnie do more isolation work? Fair enough he is slightly bigger than I am but if pull ups are enough for me......

Arnie as in Schwartzenegger? He was on steroids. They help your recovery tremendously. Besides, he was a pure bodybuilder. Powerlifters on roids, for instance, don't do isolation work like a bodybuilder does, but they do profit from the quick recovery and the comparative ease in putting on and maintaining muscle. If your goals aren't exactly the same as a bodybuilder's and you're not on roids, it should be no surprise that you'd be better off doing something different than a top bodybuilder would.

Note also that these guys have trained for many years. They don't need to build a foundation anymore.

Keep in mind its debatable whether Arnie succeeded because of his training or in spite of it.

1. He was an advanced trainee, meaning he needed a ton more work to stimulate gains, and his gains came slower. There's only so much cns intensive work you can do.

2. He was on steroids, so he could handle more volume/frequency because it helps you recover quicker

3. He was a bodybuilder, not focused on strength

4. He was special

You really shouldn't try to compare your body to roided up bodies of the past and how they were built. We know so much more about training now than Arnold did back in the day. And we know that isolation exercises are all but worthless for a beginner. They certainly have their place in training, but you probably aren't there yet. The book will shed more light on these types of topics, but if you search the internet you can see a ton more reasons why compound is the way to go starting out (and for most of what you will probably ever be looking at lifting wise).

haha i've always thought this(the spite of part)

I am not so sure anymore, I am leaning towards my OP workout. My WO looks like this

Heavy Upper:
5 Upper Compounds
5 sets
4-6 reps

Heavy Lower:
3 Lower Compounds
5-8 sets
4-6 reps
some ab

Light Upper:
75% iso, 25 compound
4 sets
8-12 reps
ab

Light Lower:
50/50
4 sets
8-12 reps

Heres my thinking: I need some variation in my workout, I can't do the same few exercises over and over. I don't like changing a whole programme, this way I can substitute in exercises every month or so and keep the same template.

How good can 1 program be, if there was 1 perfect program every1 would do it

It really applies to all bodybuilders. When you're taking 1g (or 3g now) of juice... There's a lot more more crap you can do wrong.

I read a ton of those muscle mags when I was a kid, and in every other one Arnie was coming out with "his" routine for some body part. Well over the course of a year it looked like Arnie must be doing a dozen full routines for the same body part at the same time.

Obviously that wasn't happening and probably only the people in the gym with him had any idea what Arnie was really doing. The rest was all about Joe Weider hiring some ghostwriter to write something up, then grabbing a camera to add some Arnie pictures to it. Arnie sold really big back in the day.