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04-17-2008 , 01:42 AM

#26

theblackkeys

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Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 7,208

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shieler

I am not so sure anymore, I am leaning towards my OP workout. My WO looks like this

Heavy Upper:
5 Upper Compounds
5 sets
4-6 reps

Heavy Lower:
3 Lower Compounds
5-8 sets
4-6 reps
some ab

Light Upper:
75% iso, 25 compound
4 sets
8-12 reps
ab

Light Lower:
50/50
4 sets
8-12 reps

Heres my thinking: I need some variation in my workout, I can't do the same few exercises over and over. I don't like changing a whole programme, this way I can substitute in exercises every month or so and keep the same template.

How good can 1 program be, if there was 1 perfect program every1 would do it

Squat heavy 2-3x a week while you can, seriously. If you do that, you will have improved your own made up program a lot.

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04-17-2008 , 02:37 PM

#27

Shieler

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblackkeys

Squat heavy 2-3x a week while you can, seriously. If you do that, you will have improved your own made up program a lot.

I do 8 sets on my heavy day, I do some bodyweight squats on my light day. I take a while to recover, I like variety in my workout, I want to include some running, these are the reasons I am not doing starting strength.

Am I right doing my heavy days all compounds?

I don't think any 1 workout programme is better, just follow one I think. I still think I will get almost the same strength gains on my programme, if doing under 8 reps improves strength, doing 8 reps will still have some strength gains.

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04-17-2008 , 02:47 PM

#28

anklebreaker

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,551

No program is perfect for everyone; yet, some are better than others. It's better to follow tried and tested programming based on the "big rocks" than just create a stew based on whims and fancies.

Quote:

75% iso, 25 compound

What does this mean anyway

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04-17-2008 , 06:29 PM

#29

Shieler

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 439

75% isolation exercises, 25% compound exercises in that workout.

Mostly bicep/tricep work, some pull ups/chin ups, push ups etc.

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04-17-2008 , 08:10 PM

#30

Thremp

banned

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 36,452

All programs are not created equal.

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04-17-2008 , 08:25 PM

#31

Shieler

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thremp

All programs are not created equal.

Most programs are. As long as you follow a few principles you can't go far wrong imo:

20-24 working (not warm ups) sets/workout
3-5 sets/exercise
3-6 reps for strength
8-10 reps for hypertrophy

include the main compound exercises at least once a week, follow those and you got yourself the making of a good program

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04-17-2008 , 08:39 PM

#32

Thremp

banned

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 36,452

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shieler

This is straight garbage. Like horrific garbage. Like if I was culling society to make it better, anyone who said this would be first ballot lox to be culled.

Quote

04-17-2008 , 08:52 PM

#33

Shieler

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thremp

This is straight garbage. Like horrific garbage. Like if I was culling society to make it better, anyone who said this would be first ballot lox to be culled.

I doubt it would be the best place to start when culling society, unless you only needed to cull 1 person, you need to look for a more common vice imo.

What then are the principles you think every program needs to follow?

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04-17-2008 , 08:58 PM

#34

jah7_fsu1

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,867

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shieler

Most programs are based on a few things which tend to make them "better" than others. Most programs share a lot in common with a few tweaks to make them better. It looks like you need to do some reading to see what those things are (see below).

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=890123

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1701042

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459411

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04-17-2008 , 09:07 PM

#35

Shieler

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by jah7_fsu1

I stand by what I said after reading those

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04-17-2008 , 09:19 PM

#36

SmileyEH

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Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 8,049

24 working sets for strength is insane.

Basically you're saying I should do 5 sets of 5 of power cleans, then do 5 sets of 5 of bench, then 5 sets of 5 of back squat, then 5 sets of 5 of deadlifts, then 5 sets of 5 of barbell rows. wtfffff

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04-17-2008 , 09:32 PM

#37

theblackkeys

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 7,208

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shieler

I don't think any 1 workout programme is better, just follow one I think. I still think I will get almost the same strength gains on my programme, if doing under 8 reps improves strength, doing 8 reps will still have some strength gains.

You aren't going to have similar strength gains with your program. The frequency of heavy squatting (on SS) is what allows you to add at least 15 lbs to your squat every week for quite some time. You have one heavy day, that's not enough.

Also, I think an 8 rep set will still be high enough intensity to have a strong strength effect, it will just have a slightly less strength focus than 5 rep sets.

ETA: yeah, 8x8 on heavy squat day? There's no way you can use any decent load relative to your 1 rep max. Why not 10x10? Also, think about this, why does walking not give us huge leg muscles? Because it is not at a high enough intensity.

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04-17-2008 , 09:38 PM

#38

theblackkeys

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Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 7,208

shieler, I strongly suggest reading this entire site.
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/

Quote

04-17-2008 , 09:56 PM

#39

Thremp

banned

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 36,452

You totally ignore intensity, training age, dual factor theory, CNS, etc etc etc.

You essentially completely made up numbers impregnated them with some standard myths and then aborted the entire thing and hit post reply.

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04-18-2008 , 12:24 PM

#40

anklebreaker

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,551

Not-to-mention progressive overload or any form of progression.

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04-18-2008 , 02:26 PM

#41

Shieler

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblackkeys

That's 8X3 for the squats but I reckon I am wrong, I don't like admitting it.

How about this:

2 Heavy Upper Days:
5X3 Bench Press
3X5 Bent Over BB Row
3X5 Military Press
5X5 Weighed Pull Ups
3X5 Upright Row
3X8 UPPER ISOLATION
2X10 UPPER ISOLATION

2 Heavy Lower Days:
6X3 BB Squat
6X3 Deadlift
3X5 Dynamic Lunge
3X10 One Legged Exercise
3X12 Calf Exercise
3X15 Curl Up

My problem is I don't like changing programs that much, I think it is a waste of a week trying to learn a new program, I want a basic template I can follow and make small changes in from week to week to keep making gains.

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04-18-2008 , 02:37 PM

#42

Thremp

banned

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 36,452

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shieler

My problem is I don't like changing programs that much, I think it is a waste of a week trying to learn a new program, I want a basic template I can follow and make small changes in from week to week to keep making gains.

Do you not realize the Catch-22 inherent in this?

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04-18-2008 , 02:45 PM

#43

Shieler

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thremp

Do you not realize the Catch-22 inherent in this?

That gains will stop on the same program? I realise that most gains from a program will be recieved within 4 weeks but with small variations I think gains can continue eg flat bench to incline, barbell to dumbell, forced reps, negative reps, supersets, partial reps, rest then force out an extra rep, trisets etc all just small variations within the same template.

Quote

04-18-2008 , 02:49 PM

#44

Thremp

banned

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 36,452

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shieler

You don't "get it".

Quote

04-18-2008 , 02:52 PM

#45

Blarg

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 53,527

And Paris Hilton.

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04-18-2008 , 02:55 PM

#46

Shieler

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thremp

You don't "get it".

You don't "explain it" very well. I have just read most of Arnold's Encyclopedia which in hindsight may have been a poor choice of reading and maybe my head if full of poor information, but would what I suggested work in theory at least? Shocking the system as Arnold says.

Quote

04-18-2008 , 03:40 PM

#47

anklebreaker

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,551

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shieler

[...] a basic template I can follow and make small changes in from week to week to keep making gains.

This is a good one-line description of SS or 5x5. SS isn't perfect for every single weight trainer in the world; in your context, it's just what the doctor ordered. Quit trying to "custom build" a special super-individualized program for the sake of it.

Quote

04-18-2008 , 04:53 PM

#48

theblackkeys

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Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 7,208

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shieler

did you read the madcow website yet?

Quote

04-18-2008 , 07:40 PM

#49

Shieler

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblackkeys

did you read the madcow website yet?

I like it when he says it will do most people for all of their training careers, that's what I'm looking for, no hoping to a new program every 4 weeks just variations.

So ones does Starting Strength first?
Then Bill Star 5X5?
Then the other programs from the madcow website?

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04-18-2008 , 08:46 PM

#50

Shieler

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 439

Please excuse 94% of the posts I made in this thread, I was young and naive. I have seen the light/I have been pushed towards the light. I blame Arnold for his book, its mostly just photos of him in the nip with all his mates anyhow.

Questions:

Do you use padding for your squats or is this for pussies?
Is a spotter necessary?
Does anyone ever reach a point where the SS/5X5 templates don't work anymore and they need to focus on isolation work? (I know-I am obsessed with isolation exercises, it is how I was brought up)
They're all 3 day a week programs?

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