Another YTF follower another dream: follow my progress to another half marathon and beyond!!
02-25-2016
, 08:08 PM
congratulations to the new 5k PR, very nice!
btw: http://www.runningforfitness.org/cal...bmit=Calculate "predicted" 27:18
wall of text coming...
i recommend the following:
- you're already at a great level in terms of marathon preparation, and you have an additional 4.5 months. so take it slow. (don't get me wrong: the marathon is still a long way and training will be hard! but you're already very close to the required starting level. you could jump in next monday and start the plan and would do fine. but of course we want more than just fine... hehe)
- (slowly) build up to 35 mpw regularly. don't hit 35 every single week. do regular recovery weeks instead and incorporate the races smartly into your cycles: so in a race week, reduce mileage somewhat (body has time to recover and you taper at the same time) and then through the race you have a high intensity training session. just as an example.
- same principle: play around with distance vs intensity. example: reduce to 30mpw for a week but do two intense workouts that week instead (plus an average long run). or do 40mpw once but all easy runs (plus some strides). or do a 2nd mid-long run in the middle of the week (so for example: monday off, tuesday 5 easy, wednesday 10 easy, tuesday off, friday 6 easy, saturday off, sunday 12 easy)
- but still: do regular real & full recovery weeks (so not just a taper week for a race). do maybe 4 runs for a total of 22-25 miles. all easy. or just one middle intense workout if you want some intensity.
- while increasing mileage (so if you do a new PR week mileagewise or very close to PR week): just easy runs + strides (plus long run of course).
- maybe late april and then may & june, do some weeks above 35, but below ~40mpw (i wouldn't go above 40mpw before your marathon plan starts). not every week, but just 2-3 times. (iirc, your 18 week plan will start july 4th, happy independe day! but monday in your plan is a recovery day anyway, hehe)
- i see no reason to do 6 weekly runs. i think for 30-35 mpw a 2nd full recovery day is more important / better than reducing the average daily mileage. (assuming 34mpw and a 10m long run, this gives you 4x6 mile runs on average on the other days. i think that fits nicely with a 10m long run. if you do 6 runs total , you run on average below 5 miles on a run day and then a 10m long run seems a little too long instead). also: your marathon plan starts with 4 runs for the first 2 weeks and then 5 runs per week until the end (this means longer runs on average). so work towards that. pfitzinger in general: the runs will be longer & more intense than you are used to so far. so by doing a max of 5 runs per week right now, you are already preparing yourself for harder individual sessions.
but sure, if you feel like 6 runs in a week, do 6 runs.
- vary distance & tempo on your easy runs. don't do 4x6miles and a 10m long run (to pick up above numbers). do something like: saturday before: 5k race; sunday: very easy longish run: 8m; monday: off; tuesday: 4m easy; wednesday: 8m with a 25min tempo run; thursday: 3m recovery; friday: 6m easy; saturday: off; sunday: 11m long run (just a random example). but it's again the idea behind: vary your efforts. play around.
- long runs: fyi, the marathon plan starts with 12m long run, but it increases 1m / week the first 5 weeks. so ideally, you should feel comfortable to run 14-15m in a go. so i would do long runs of up to 14m. but of course, as always: increase slowly. do the longest long runs in your ~40mile-weeks. i think if your regular long run is in the 10-12 mile range, that's perfect.
- pfitzinger is BIG on lactate treshold runs. http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/find-the-tempo describes them. ignore the pace advice in the article, that is for much faster runner. general guideline is pace that you can run during a 1 hour RACE (aka 15k pace for FAST guys or half marathon pace for world class guys). but for you atm, this is more or less 10k race pace (or 1-2 seconds slower). i think thats around 9m10s mile pace. start doing them as a workout. warmup (plus additional mileage so that the run has the desired length), then 20min tempo run, then cool down. again, this is not race pace. it's a controlled effort. you want to train your body's ability to clear lactate acid and to do that, you have to train at a pace that brings your body very close to its lactate clearing maximum. but not above it. well, buy the book, read up about it.
but yeah, incorporate them (it's in the end the same as what we called a tempo run so far. just slightly more precise pacing). do them regularly and build up the time at lactate treshold (up to ~35minutes). you can also do a LT "intervals". do for example 15min @ lactate pace, then 5min jogging recovery, then another 12min at LT pace. this is a great workout and will especially help you for the shorter races. (you won't run the marathon @ LT pace, because by definition, you can only hold that pace for an hour... but it will still make you a stronger runner in all distances).
not every week, but a LT run should become a staple in your training plan. so maybe do them twice per ~5 week (together with intervalls, hill runs, fartleks etc).
- pfitzinger is also BIG on mid-week medium long runs. you often have a hard workout on tuesday followed by a medium long run up to 12m on wednesday for a hard combo (and then the normal long run on sunday). don't incorporate that yet (it's unnecessarily hard). but you can prepare yourself by doing some mid week longer runs as already suggested. or do a harder than usual run after your weekly workout day... etc
- buy the heart rate monitor, it's cheap and will help you a lot! i also want to know once and for all if your easy pace is too fast or not,
- buy the book (advanced marathoning by pfitzinger , 2nd edition) and read it over the next weeks (or read parts of it). then read it again short before starting. you will learn a lot.
- limited crosstraining / strength training would be very useful. and regular hill runs as well (or do hill repeats on whatever exists in florida, hehe)
and just a general remark: you're on a great way. don't forget the diet part, you can't (yet at least) outrun too much snacking. i would really try to give it another strong push now and also eat more "healthy" stuff. it's much easier and (lower injury risk) to start the marathon plan lighter than expected... you're on a great way, just don't forget the diet.
and: as you see, the training is really working wonderfully. you're improving at rapid pace without much fast or "hard" work (i mean: you're doing 80%+ easy runs). just continue doing this: don't push it too hard, steady wins the race. (intensity will come with the marathon training, no worry). the worst thing you can do for your running & weight loss is to get injured.
so, that's it. gogogo & good luck! btw, here's my official 3h41m18s prediction for your marathon debut. don't let me down!
btw: http://www.runningforfitness.org/cal...bmit=Calculate "predicted" 27:18
Quote:
i recommend the following:
- you're already at a great level in terms of marathon preparation, and you have an additional 4.5 months. so take it slow. (don't get me wrong: the marathon is still a long way and training will be hard! but you're already very close to the required starting level. you could jump in next monday and start the plan and would do fine. but of course we want more than just fine... hehe)
- (slowly) build up to 35 mpw regularly. don't hit 35 every single week. do regular recovery weeks instead and incorporate the races smartly into your cycles: so in a race week, reduce mileage somewhat (body has time to recover and you taper at the same time) and then through the race you have a high intensity training session. just as an example.
- same principle: play around with distance vs intensity. example: reduce to 30mpw for a week but do two intense workouts that week instead (plus an average long run). or do 40mpw once but all easy runs (plus some strides). or do a 2nd mid-long run in the middle of the week (so for example: monday off, tuesday 5 easy, wednesday 10 easy, tuesday off, friday 6 easy, saturday off, sunday 12 easy)
- but still: do regular real & full recovery weeks (so not just a taper week for a race). do maybe 4 runs for a total of 22-25 miles. all easy. or just one middle intense workout if you want some intensity.
- while increasing mileage (so if you do a new PR week mileagewise or very close to PR week): just easy runs + strides (plus long run of course).
- maybe late april and then may & june, do some weeks above 35, but below ~40mpw (i wouldn't go above 40mpw before your marathon plan starts). not every week, but just 2-3 times. (iirc, your 18 week plan will start july 4th, happy independe day! but monday in your plan is a recovery day anyway, hehe)
- i see no reason to do 6 weekly runs. i think for 30-35 mpw a 2nd full recovery day is more important / better than reducing the average daily mileage. (assuming 34mpw and a 10m long run, this gives you 4x6 mile runs on average on the other days. i think that fits nicely with a 10m long run. if you do 6 runs total , you run on average below 5 miles on a run day and then a 10m long run seems a little too long instead). also: your marathon plan starts with 4 runs for the first 2 weeks and then 5 runs per week until the end (this means longer runs on average). so work towards that. pfitzinger in general: the runs will be longer & more intense than you are used to so far. so by doing a max of 5 runs per week right now, you are already preparing yourself for harder individual sessions.
but sure, if you feel like 6 runs in a week, do 6 runs.
- vary distance & tempo on your easy runs. don't do 4x6miles and a 10m long run (to pick up above numbers). do something like: saturday before: 5k race; sunday: very easy longish run: 8m; monday: off; tuesday: 4m easy; wednesday: 8m with a 25min tempo run; thursday: 3m recovery; friday: 6m easy; saturday: off; sunday: 11m long run (just a random example). but it's again the idea behind: vary your efforts. play around.
- long runs: fyi, the marathon plan starts with 12m long run, but it increases 1m / week the first 5 weeks. so ideally, you should feel comfortable to run 14-15m in a go. so i would do long runs of up to 14m. but of course, as always: increase slowly. do the longest long runs in your ~40mile-weeks. i think if your regular long run is in the 10-12 mile range, that's perfect.
- pfitzinger is BIG on lactate treshold runs. http://www.runnersworld.com/workouts/find-the-tempo describes them. ignore the pace advice in the article, that is for much faster runner. general guideline is pace that you can run during a 1 hour RACE (aka 15k pace for FAST guys or half marathon pace for world class guys). but for you atm, this is more or less 10k race pace (or 1-2 seconds slower). i think thats around 9m10s mile pace. start doing them as a workout. warmup (plus additional mileage so that the run has the desired length), then 20min tempo run, then cool down. again, this is not race pace. it's a controlled effort. you want to train your body's ability to clear lactate acid and to do that, you have to train at a pace that brings your body very close to its lactate clearing maximum. but not above it. well, buy the book, read up about it.
but yeah, incorporate them (it's in the end the same as what we called a tempo run so far. just slightly more precise pacing). do them regularly and build up the time at lactate treshold (up to ~35minutes). you can also do a LT "intervals". do for example 15min @ lactate pace, then 5min jogging recovery, then another 12min at LT pace. this is a great workout and will especially help you for the shorter races. (you won't run the marathon @ LT pace, because by definition, you can only hold that pace for an hour... but it will still make you a stronger runner in all distances).
not every week, but a LT run should become a staple in your training plan. so maybe do them twice per ~5 week (together with intervalls, hill runs, fartleks etc).
- pfitzinger is also BIG on mid-week medium long runs. you often have a hard workout on tuesday followed by a medium long run up to 12m on wednesday for a hard combo (and then the normal long run on sunday). don't incorporate that yet (it's unnecessarily hard). but you can prepare yourself by doing some mid week longer runs as already suggested. or do a harder than usual run after your weekly workout day... etc
- buy the heart rate monitor, it's cheap and will help you a lot! i also want to know once and for all if your easy pace is too fast or not,
- buy the book (advanced marathoning by pfitzinger , 2nd edition) and read it over the next weeks (or read parts of it). then read it again short before starting. you will learn a lot.
- limited crosstraining / strength training would be very useful. and regular hill runs as well (or do hill repeats on whatever exists in florida, hehe)
and just a general remark: you're on a great way. don't forget the diet part, you can't (yet at least) outrun too much snacking. i would really try to give it another strong push now and also eat more "healthy" stuff. it's much easier and (lower injury risk) to start the marathon plan lighter than expected... you're on a great way, just don't forget the diet.
and: as you see, the training is really working wonderfully. you're improving at rapid pace without much fast or "hard" work (i mean: you're doing 80%+ easy runs). just continue doing this: don't push it too hard, steady wins the race. (intensity will come with the marathon training, no worry). the worst thing you can do for your running & weight loss is to get injured.
so, that's it. gogogo & good luck! btw, here's my official 3h41m18s prediction for your marathon debut. don't let me down!
Last edited by trontron; 02-25-2016 at 08:25 PM.
03-01-2016
, 12:59 PM
03-01-2016
, 01:25 PM
end goal is 190lbs atm (but i think you'll end up lower than that long-term... 190lbs @ 5'11" without muscles is still a little chubby, hehe)
03-01-2016
, 02:09 PM
I wish I had more pics of me at my heaviest so I could post before/after but the only ones I have on my phone are group shots with my kids. I didn't exactly jump in front of cameras very often back then.
03-02-2016
, 10:15 AM
Aah I saw the -9.8/50 bit but wasn't sure what the -9.8 was because I knew he'd already lost a ton last year. Didn't realise he'd started a new target at the start of the year.
Wrt the ankle, little niggles like that are par for the course when doing a lot of running. The trick is to work out which ones are serious and need rest and which ones you can just run through. If it's not bothering you when running and isn't getting too painful afterwards I'd say it's probably fine. You should probably do some mobility/SMR work on it in between runs though. Do you do any of that stuff already?
Wrt the ankle, little niggles like that are par for the course when doing a lot of running. The trick is to work out which ones are serious and need rest and which ones you can just run through. If it's not bothering you when running and isn't getting too painful afterwards I'd say it's probably fine. You should probably do some mobility/SMR work on it in between runs though. Do you do any of that stuff already?
03-06-2016
, 08:30 PM
sharp pain is a very bad sign and you should stop the run immediately when that happens (especially during an intense workout).
it's normal to feel some small aches on a run. maybe your foot feels a little strange for a minute, then it's gone again. or your knee is somehow a little wacky but before you can really analyze it, it's normal again... this kind of stuff. this is normal. and you have some DOMS or your legs feel heavy and tired in the evening etc.
but when there is a sharp and sudden pain while running, stop instantly!
i hope it's nothing serious, but don't push your luck in the next days... be very cautious and take as much time off as needed until you feel like it's fully ok again.
about the intervals in general:
intervals are not races. the idea is not to run every single one as fast as possible. instead you want to maximize the time that you spend at an anaerobic level to increase your VO2max.
it seems you ran your first interval all out and as a result were too tired to achieve proper speed on your 2nd (but mostly third and potentially fourth) interval. a 2:10 quarter mile corresponds to a ~10min mile... (maybe i misinterpreted what you wrote and your slowdown was more a result of the injury)
the first interval was also too long. you're not fit / fast enough for 1 mile intervals (they take too long to run them at the proper speed / intensity that would be ideal). the recovery break after the first interval was also too short.
now, all of this falls somewhat in the nitpicking category... ignoring the injury stuff for a second, your workout will still have a good training effect and help you. but still, there's no reason to not try to maximize the training effect of it
i'm probably partly responsible by saying to mix stuff up. to give you a specific recommendation for a workout.
do 800m or 1000m repeats. this gives you intervals of 4-5min for each one, that's perfect.
but don't mix distances during a workout.
do a total of 4-6km of total "interval distance". ie 5x800m or 4x1000m up to 8x800m or 6x1000m. (start out at the lower bound and if it goes well, increase distance).
take 2m30s walking recovery break for 800m repeats or 3min for 1000m repeats.
pacing: to give you a starting point: 4:10 to 4:15 for the 800m , or 5:12 - 5:16 for the 1000m.
hit every single interval at those goal paces and try to keep pacing as constant as possible.
don't run them faster. not the first one. not the last one.
if your reps become too slow, increase recovery time slightly.
the first 2 reps should still feel quite easy, then it becomes tougher and tougher. the last one should be very challenging.
if the last reps still felt easy (or not tough enough), then either:
- switch from walking between reps to a slow jog
- reduce the length of the recovery breaks (but not shorter than 50% of the time your repetition took)
- increase pace of the intervals
for your next interval workout.
________________________
thank you for the kind words, you're welcome. and to nag you: buy a HR monitor for your phone. it costs $25-$40. as long as this is not a big expense for you, there's really nothing to think about. it will give you very valuable data that you will "need" (*) for your marathon training anyway... and buying it now will give you the additional data of different races over the upcoming months...
* well, of course you don't need it in a literal way. but it's important to run training runs (especially the harder workouts) at the proper pace and your heart rate gives you very valuable feedback about those paces...
it's normal to feel some small aches on a run. maybe your foot feels a little strange for a minute, then it's gone again. or your knee is somehow a little wacky but before you can really analyze it, it's normal again... this kind of stuff. this is normal. and you have some DOMS or your legs feel heavy and tired in the evening etc.
but when there is a sharp and sudden pain while running, stop instantly!
i hope it's nothing serious, but don't push your luck in the next days... be very cautious and take as much time off as needed until you feel like it's fully ok again.
about the intervals in general:
intervals are not races. the idea is not to run every single one as fast as possible. instead you want to maximize the time that you spend at an anaerobic level to increase your VO2max.
it seems you ran your first interval all out and as a result were too tired to achieve proper speed on your 2nd (but mostly third and potentially fourth) interval. a 2:10 quarter mile corresponds to a ~10min mile... (maybe i misinterpreted what you wrote and your slowdown was more a result of the injury)
the first interval was also too long. you're not fit / fast enough for 1 mile intervals (they take too long to run them at the proper speed / intensity that would be ideal). the recovery break after the first interval was also too short.
now, all of this falls somewhat in the nitpicking category... ignoring the injury stuff for a second, your workout will still have a good training effect and help you. but still, there's no reason to not try to maximize the training effect of it
i'm probably partly responsible by saying to mix stuff up. to give you a specific recommendation for a workout.
do 800m or 1000m repeats. this gives you intervals of 4-5min for each one, that's perfect.
but don't mix distances during a workout.
do a total of 4-6km of total "interval distance". ie 5x800m or 4x1000m up to 8x800m or 6x1000m. (start out at the lower bound and if it goes well, increase distance).
take 2m30s walking recovery break for 800m repeats or 3min for 1000m repeats.
pacing: to give you a starting point: 4:10 to 4:15 for the 800m , or 5:12 - 5:16 for the 1000m.
hit every single interval at those goal paces and try to keep pacing as constant as possible.
don't run them faster. not the first one. not the last one.
if your reps become too slow, increase recovery time slightly.
the first 2 reps should still feel quite easy, then it becomes tougher and tougher. the last one should be very challenging.
if the last reps still felt easy (or not tough enough), then either:
- switch from walking between reps to a slow jog
- reduce the length of the recovery breaks (but not shorter than 50% of the time your repetition took)
- increase pace of the intervals
for your next interval workout.
________________________
thank you for the kind words, you're welcome. and to nag you: buy a HR monitor for your phone. it costs $25-$40. as long as this is not a big expense for you, there's really nothing to think about. it will give you very valuable data that you will "need" (*) for your marathon training anyway... and buying it now will give you the additional data of different races over the upcoming months...
* well, of course you don't need it in a literal way. but it's important to run training runs (especially the harder workouts) at the proper pace and your heart rate gives you very valuable feedback about those paces...
Last edited by trontron; 03-06-2016 at 08:36 PM.