I'll try to make this a TL;DR.

I'm currently working between 25-45 hours a week on average, and some is shift work so inconsistent working hours at short notice.

I'm trying to get into my poker bigtime in 2010, and at this stage [this is also applying to the last 4-6 months to a degree] i'm really struggling to motivate myself to grind while i'm working a decent amount of hours every week, i don't "need" to earn any extra money from poker by any means, it's just something i want to do.

I was wondering how do people motivate themselives to grind so much in general, but also considering if they work x amount of hours per week, and also work on their strategy aspect of their game so much effort per week, every week?

I'm currently beating 25nl for ~3ptbb/100 for 90K hands and i'm looking into gettting some coaching and doing sweats etc etc, but its the motivational aspect i'm really struggling to get my head around, part of me wants to grind, do strategy review etc, but then part of me is like "i earn $[***] this week **** grinding go get pissed & weekend shenanigans etc etc.

I wish I discovered online poker when I was in college. Would have had a lot more saved/ loans paid off by now. I would grind now so you can have financial freedom quicker.

Instead, now I'm working a full time office job, and trying to grind after wards while sustaining a relationship.

I read your post, did a search and found this ... actually pretty good article

http://www.stevepavlina.com/articles...ing-desire.htm

Also might want to check out the Psychology forum

Try having a full time wife... man I wish they came part time...

Don't take this the wrong way but imo I don't think most people have to really motivate themselves. I think most of us really are passionate about poker and want to get better at it. Therefore it automatically takes priority in our lives.

Maybe you should strongly consider, if your not that passionate about it, that poker isn't necessarily the best 2nd income. Poker isn't easy and its alot of work to get good.

In the past I've played my best when I spend 50% of my time playing and the other 50% reviewing my past play and studying. imo you can only learn so much from 2p2, to get good, you have to spend money, either on books or on videos, just more advanced concepts that are whole units that you don't necessarily get here on 2p2.

Yea CotW cover pretty much every topic but it isn't by one author so its never a complete package. imo 2p2 gives you a good base but if you really want to get good, you have to compliment it with external sources. Thats why you get people paying $700 or whatever it is for Baluga's ebook. Its because people are passionate and are willing to spend the time and money to get to that next level.

I agree with this a lot. I don't ever need motivation to play. I can hardly pull myself away most times.

+3

I am an engineer and have a full time job, yet if you asked my fiance she would say I am TOO motivated to play poker . I have a rough goal of hitting 10hrs/week but seldom hit it, mostly just with life/work getting in the way. What kills me is that I usually put in hours Mon-Thurs while my fiance is at class, so I miss out on juicy weekend games for the most part.

Grinding for money kind of sucks too, I have been doing that for the past 8 months to help pay for wedding costs, but I liked it more when I was playing entirely for fun and money was just a cool perk

Maybe from your OP you should just set some time aside each week for poker. If you are not motivated to grind, then do some session reviews, watch videos, try some HU/6max/PLO, go lower stakes and try to play LAG, post in all the 2+2 strat threads that evening, etc.. I have found that it is a bad idea to just put in hours when you don't feel like it, so do something else to further your development.

Do you love the game? Do you find yourself thinking you'd rather be playing poker than whatever you are currently doing? It sounds more like you would rather be doing other things than playing poker, like weekend shenanigans etc. Occassional shenanigans and other things are fine, but when you are always doing them and wanting to d them instead of poker, you will find it may be very hard to keep to the grind. Every once in awhile I find I would rather play another game like Civilization III, so I do since my mind would be distracted if I played poker then. Most of the time however I am thinking I would rather be playing poker. I think of it in different ways, it's fun and recreational, it's a challenge, it's study, it's psychological, it's monies! Try to think of it on different levels, maybe that will help.

Garon

+1

Doing different forms of poker, playing, posting, reading, trying different styles, session reviews. Don't just play!

Garon

Pretty simple, life >> poker
If you need motivation for playing poker then something is probably wrong and you'll burn out in the long run. Just like with a normal job imo.
For me, poker is just fun and something to get better at so i don't need any motivation.
If i don't feel like playing then i just don't (although i'm trying to change that a bit with the low volume prop bet)

^
This, although i don't like the poker > life thing. Playing only micro limits you don't really need other sources then 2P2 to get better imo. When moving up, if you review your own and your opponents play good enough then you should also make it i think. External sources just help you get there quicker.

This is so true, in my homegame we sometimes do a dealers choice night where all kinds of crazy variants get played with sometimes very weird and random modifiers (red T+ is wild, 2nd best hand wins, only a flop, ......).
It keeps the fun in the game and also makes for good laughs which motivates you a bit more to crush donks online

I agree with this a lot, but get with the times! Civ IV is so much better than III, you should try playing that. I even got my wife interested in playing, so I can combine wife spending time (non sexy division) with Civ time and have more time for poker!

Choix

My problem isn't motivation, its finding time when I can play my A game (or some semblance thereof). By the time I get home from work and do diner/family time/put the kids to bed, I am usually in the mood to play, but I play like crap (for me), which annoys the crap outta me. I got in a hands prop bet this month, which has really helped. It's not that I want to play more, its just that I have a goal to shoot for. I also think the ironman bonus system at tilt might help a bit.

I know how you feel. I'm in a similar situation. I've always struggled with where poker fits into my life.

I have a wife and two kids, which means I have a lot of responsibilities.

I have a great job. I make a good income. I work from home 95% of the time. I have over a month of paid vacation every year. I have great health and retirement benefits. This job is the result of years invested in college and moving around in the industry to gain experience. This is not a job I ever plan on leaving. My income from poker will likely never exceed my job income.

But I love poker. It have never found another pass time that so completely fulfills my competitive/analytical nature. It is truly the perfect game.

I've been wrestling with my approach to the game. Is it a part-time job, or a hobby? I've decided (for now) that I don't need to label it one way or another. I don't need the income, but it's nice. I don't have an obligation to a quota (i.e. # hands/wk, etc), but I love it when I have a couple of free hours to grind. I don't need to spend time reading/studying, but I enjoy it.

So for now, it just is what it is.

*Grunch

There are different types of motivation IMO. One is the essential type. You have to work, even if you hate your job and your life, because:

1. You have to support yourself
2. You have to support a family

The other type of motivation is for non-essential things. E.g. secondary (poker) income. This type of motivation doesn't last. It might work for a while, but it doesn't last forever.

Therefore the key to grinding is habit. The problem is this: how do you get yourself to do things that you don't want to do? E.g. doing chores, doing the dishes, grinding, etc. I asked one of my (former) professors this question, who, might I add, is the wisest person I've ever met, and he said something like this:

The solution is to make small changes and to stick to them. Never underestimate the power of small changes... After about a year, you will be so powerful. A year sounds like a lot, but you will have developed something that will serve you for at least 10-20 years.

He only gave the time line of a year to be conservative. If you choose to develop a habit over the course of a year, there's a great chance that it will serve you for the rest of your life.

However, developing a habit to do anything need not take a year. I think the "experts" agree that it takes 21-30 days to develop a habit. Either way, here's what you can do to develop the habit to grind. It need not be this way, but I'm going to be a nitty nit on this one:

1. Play one round per day for a month. End the session when the blinds reach you again. This is to develop the habit of STARTING a session
2. Play 30 minutes every day for a month.
3. Play 60 minutes every day for a month.
4. Play 90 minutes every day for a month.
.
.
.
X. Play five hours and 30 minutes every day (which is all you really need to play poker full-time)

Your increments need not be so small. Maybe you can increase by one hour. And maybe instead of taking a step up once every month, you do it every 21 days. The key, however, is consistency. This works BOTH ways. You might think that you can only break the habit if you do not reach the limit. The fact, however, is that you can break the habit just as easily if you go OVER your limit. This is easier to do than you think, because once you start grinding for an hour, you start to get into it and you don't really want to stop. But you don't want to do this. Be consistent. Reach your limit but don't go beyond until you are certain that you are ready for the next step.

"Suppose you are at your desk two hours a day and produce on average 50 words an hour. That is not much, but it is about 35,000 words a year, and a book every two or three years. I have found this to be reinforcing enough." - B. F. Skinner

P.S. I have the same problem as OP. My main problem is STARTING a poker session. I have no problem playing for a few hours once it starts, but it is starting the session that's the hardest part. And the key, like I said, is to start off with a very easy goal and increase once you've established the habit of reaching that very easy goal.

That's a pretty interesting website, thanks for the link

this, after being at work all day it is hard to come home get **** done then want to "work" again. when on a day its easy to play for 3 hours.

Medical school + medical boards + wife = very little personal time

But you have to drag me away from the tables/2p2/hand review most nights. It helps to have a wife who has logged 3 times as many hands as you in the last 5 years who is relatively understanding. For her its all about the money and is happy grinding out spare cash to pay for her law school and my medical school loans. After burning out playing excessive volumes of hands in college and taking a 6 month break, I got back into poker for the sake of learning all of the stuff that I should have 4-5 years ago, but was too lazy/short sighted to. I also realized that its a heck of a lot more fun to be working on your game than grinding for cash.

When I sit down for a session, I WANT to play that session (or get 2k hands for me to analyze, I'm not sure at this point....) Its a general rule of thumb, but if you have been blessed with a life where you have the opportunity to spend a good portion of your time doing something that you enjoy doing, forget the extra money and live your life the way you want.

After reading what everyone else said, I agree that OP needs to think about why he/she is playing poker in the first place before he/she tries to develop a grind.

Poker, for me, is only about money. Whatever enjoyment I get out of it is only secondary. I imagine that those who want to DEVELOP a poker grind do it for the money also. However, once an activity has become associated with monetary incentives, there is a good chance that it becomes less enjoyable. I am pretty sure there's scientific evidence that supports this idea, I read it somewhere, but of course, it is not ALWAYS the case.

Edit: so if you GENUINELY love poker, then you won't be "grinding." Instead, you'll be playing a game that you enjoy. The volume of play will come naturally. If you cannot get down to playing poker, whether you lack motivation or view it as a chore, then playing poker is a "grind" to you. If this is the case, you really need to think long and hard about whether you want to keep playing poker for the long term. It's competitive, it's hard, it's unkind, it's boring (to you), and you don't know how far up the ladder you can get before you hit a ceiling.

I read this blog on CR and it got me going. I like to be yelled at...

http://blogs.cardrunners.com/citizen...-****ing-do-it

Could'nt have said it better, I am by no means super profitable player but I truly love sitting down and playing, learning and bettering my play. I have never had to try to motivate myself to play, it's a burning desire to get on the felts and play.

One last thing. Someone in these forums once said that you should play the micros to learn, not to earn, but I forgot who it is. I can see why, and I probably wouldn't play at any level less than 50NL for income.

That was freaking awesome.

That's why i put my longer sessions in on the weekends.

I have issues playing more than 10 hours/week of poker (have a FT job, but no kids/other hassles). I think you need to evaluate what you want poker to do for you.

For me, I want poker to eliminate any stress over my financial well-being. Poker for me means not having to sweat buying a round of drinks for friends, or paying for a meal, or buying a few bottles/food for a party. I don't have lofty aspirations of buying cars/houses and whatnot from poker money.

I think if you set realistic goals, and if you really enjoy playing/talking about poker, that the motivation just comes. Sure some months (I'm looking at you December) I play less than I wanted to...but it's usually because I didn't value playing poker at the time. If poker isn't going to make you happier than the alternative activity you have for the night, don't play.

The whole point of poker as a 2nd income is to not make it seem like a job, it's a game that you can play, it's a serious thing...but it's not life or death if you miss a weekend going camping/on vacation.

I 100% have to motivate myself to play, and I work 55ish hours a week on average. A lot of times I'd prefer to mindlessly play video games or something but I force myself to play poker.

This year it became very easy to do that by deciding to go for Iron level in Iron man. At NL50 w/ 8 tables, this means I have to play about 1.5hrs a day 25 days each month. That goal has made it really easy to motivate myself, and has also shortened my average session time considerably rather than using a hands per week target (which I'd spend most of sunday afternoon grinding).

So far, this is the only benefit I've found in Iron Man requiring a certain number of points AND days played rather than just a point goal like Stars' VIP system.

Another way of putting what was said above is that poker in and of it is boring. Even if you are lagging it up, you're folding the majority of hands you play. Folding isn't interesting. Then there are the hands you raise and everyone folds. That's boring. OK, now they call and fold to your cbet. Boring.

Unless you really enjoy the mental challenge of the rare situation where things come up, you'll find you'll eventually burn out. Most people do burn out. If you read the blogs of the young superstars that are playing the nosebleeds, almost to a person they say, "I can't imagine doing this in 5 years time."

Your body is telling you that poker shouldn't be a career for you. Keep it fun and enjoyable. Don't force yourself.