Update/Why am I beating myself up for this? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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Update/Why am I beating myself up for this?

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12-21-2015 , 07:40 PM

ProAspiration

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 35

So, after alot of range evaluations and practice with a poker program. I have some good news. I'm at 3k hands and I am beating the Micros at around 30bb/100. Doubt that it is sustainable but we will see.. Anyways this hand came up and I am of 2 minds about it.

I was thinking this is a pretty easy fold, but for some reason I didn't follow my intuition. Villain was a 57/5 fish over 40 hands. Is there ever a world where folding is the best play? I figured the board was draw heavy thats why I got it all in. If it wasn't draw heavy I probably would have found a fold. Is this correct?

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37198455

CO: $4.49 (89.8 bb)
BTN: $1.53 (30.6 bb)
SB: $4.30 (86 bb)
BB: $1.84 (36.8 bb)
Hero (MP): $5.33 (106.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A

Hero raises to $0.17, 2 folds, SB calls $0.15, BB calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.51) Q

(3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.40, SB raises to $1.71, BB folds, Hero raises to $5.16 and is all-in, SB calls $2.42 and is all-in

Turn: ($8.77) 5

(2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($8.77) 4

(2 players, 2 are all-in)

Spoiler:

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

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12-21-2015 , 08:05 PM

Joak

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 18

CALL

The only reason to fold here vs a fish would be that he is extremly passive and have 100+ hands and seen him only raise two pair+

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12-21-2015 , 08:08 PM

ProAspiration

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 35

I don't like the idea of a call because then I am just giving him the chance to hit his draw, if I am going to go with my hand because of draw combinations I have to be sure to get the money in on flop. Besides his raise was huge he told me he was committed.

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12-21-2015 , 08:11 PM

Joak

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 18

totally agree. Nice hand

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12-21-2015 , 08:28 PM

cruisecontrol204

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 1,240

Played fine given villain and draw heavy board. What have you seen villain showdown with? How is he post flop? I'm not a bench mark, but I play 3k hands in 3-4 hours so don't focus on your bb/100 so much, swings last that long especially with rake attribute on a downswing. You're obviously doing something right but just focus on plugging leaks and opponent tendencies and thinking level. You seem like you can constantly improve so keep working hard

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12-21-2015 , 08:33 PM

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,513

jus fold

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12-21-2015 , 08:46 PM

Man ag City

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 566

Think this is fine can easily have draws or even top pair

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12-22-2015 , 08:15 AM

lardydardy

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 179

Awkward spot, I think you played it fine

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12-22-2015 , 10:26 AM

krimson

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,613

I'd say it's a closer decision than most people are letting on here. Do you have any post-flop reads outside of this guys pre-flop stats? When a passive fish wakes up and starts raising you it is usually some cause for concern with 1 pair type hands.

I don't really think passive fish know how to semi bluff. Generally they would just call this down to the river and see if they hit anything.

If you had reads that this guy can get aggressive with bluffs or TP type hands post-flop then yeah stacking off is standard.

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12-22-2015 , 05:09 PM

#10

SCF

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,281

It's close, because Baluga still applies to a 57/5 fish. OTH, I could see a call because, with 83bb, a fish can do this with a good Q.

Post-flop reads are much more important than preflop stats here. You should have 22-23 hands where the fish saw the flop, almost always as the preflop caller. If he hasn't raised a cbet, donked or otherwise shown aggression yet, I probably fold here.

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12-22-2015 , 07:28 PM

#11

gerar_vc87

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 43

I think it dpends if the villain is passive or agressive. looking at the stats he looks kind of passive so IMO is a fold

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12-23-2015 , 10:18 AM

#12

Kuval

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,366

Our bet is polarizing and good for that reason- but worse for that reason. I prefer to check this and re-evaluate the turn. You're going to be good a big chunk of the time, but playing for your stack doesn't seem like a great idea with just 1 pair- does it?

This is the problem many new players have with Hold 'em. They don't plan their hands properly.

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12-23-2015 , 11:29 AM

#13

shinamobabi1

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 147

Hate to be cliche and quote a poker book... but AA is either going to win you a little pot... or lose you a big one...

Learning to fold Aces after the flop is key even if the person happens to be a fish... also 40 hands is a small sample size

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12-23-2015 , 12:23 PM

#14

ohsnapzbrah

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,940

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuval

What is this? Players don't plan their hands properly, but you advocate checking (probably calling) and re-evaluating the turn. That's not a plan, it's a cop out line used by meh players when they don't know what to do.

If fish had a smaller stack, I'd snap call it off. The raise isn't a typical small check raise with drawish or weak type of hand either. So I'm ok with a nitty fold. We're going to make money from this player calling too much, not him raising into us.

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12-23-2015 , 12:30 PM

#15

Bladesman87

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 14,543

I would typically c-bet, bet turn, shove river vs. BB on blank run outs, expecting him not to fold a Q very often. Sounds like a plan to me, at least. And it's also playing for stacks.

Even with a small sample we've seen this guy on 20 flops so that should give us some idea about his passivity post-flop that helps our decision now.

I hate the idea of checking back two red aces on this board.

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12-23-2015 , 12:48 PM

#16

krimson

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,613

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladesman87

I would typically c-bet, bet turn, shove river vs. BB on blank run outs, expecting him not to fold a Q very often. Sounds like a plan to me, at least. And it's also playing for stacks.

Agreed. Lots of potential to value bet 3-streets against 2nd best hands that think they are strong here. Since the pre-flop action was so passive our hand strength is concealed.

I think the comment about polarizing ranges with a bet would make more sense with something like JT where we fold out worse and get called by better.

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12-23-2015 , 07:37 PM

#17

Kuval

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,366

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohsnapzbrah

You're playing at the micros and a fish calls for roughly 25:1 implied odds. Fish makes a big x/r on a nearly PSB by us, and we don't think he has 2-pair plus?

Look, the plan is not there. There's no meh about it. When that flop comes, I know that a lot of hands lose half their equity on the turn. All of the straightdraws, flushdraws, and pairs that try to fill up and miss are going to run away on the turn- or call incorrectly. When we bet that big... we're only getting a fold or ending up in a situation where we have the worst hand (possibly by a long shot).

If you want my full explanation, it's $100 an hour man.

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12-23-2015 , 08:22 PM

#18

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,513

Checking is quite awful, don't do that. You know you're in position on a wet board vs. two fish with an overpair right?

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12-24-2015 , 01:20 AM

#19

FergusonCurly

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 92

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuval

You're playing at the micros and a fish calls for roughly 25:1 implied odds. Fish makes a big x/r on a nearly PSB by us, and we don't think he has 2-pair plus?

Agreed. Guy is 57/5 literally never raising unless he has 2p+ this is never a draw. Why? Because he calls with his draws.

Cbet 2/3rd pot and go for b/f 3 streets. The mantra of any TAG

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