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*** Official 2013 uFR Pokerstars Regs Thread (NSFW) *** *** Official 2013 uFR Pokerstars Regs Thread (NSFW) ***

11-21-2013 , 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk
yeah man I feel a bit the same way. I don't really love poker anymore, but I do like the lifestyle. But the real world >>>> poker, at least if you can find something fulfilling
You like the lifestyle of going to the casino every night sitting with the same old degens talking about the same old bad beats and other fish stuff?
Getting home at 6am, sleeping all day and doing the same thing again?
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11-21-2013 , 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sm1t
You like the lifestyle of going to the casino every night sitting with the same old degens talking about the same old bad beats and other fish stuff?
Getting home at 6am, sleeping all day and doing the same thing again?
In a way, yeah
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11-21-2013 , 11:07 AM
Not that i've had a degen session like that in months

or will set foot in a casino for a long time
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11-21-2013 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk
Not that i've had a degen session like that in months

or will set foot in a casino for a long time
Why is it a "degen session"?
Seems standard to me

And why not?
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11-21-2013 , 12:26 PM
I no longer have the bankroll to play 1/2 after a soulcrushing downswing
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11-21-2013 , 03:09 PM
6m is deffo tougher than FR. 6m you are in close and tough situations way more often.
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11-21-2013 , 04:11 PM
Plus the rake is higher, for me it was about 1.7bb/100 more in 6max.

Tobe4nofunas gives some solid reasons to play FR instead of 6max at the micros - you might be able to find one of his posts itt.
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11-21-2013 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doofus Krondelly
The ranges aren't really wider than FR though.

You just get into the 'wide range' spots more often at 6-max than full-ring. The actual width of those 'wide range' spots are the same, or at least they should be.

For instance, Button vs Small Blind should play out exactly the same at full-ring as it does at 6-max so basically they are the same games in theory.
You are right that in certain spots the ranges are roughly the same as fr but only in instances when utg-utg+2 all open fold. However they are in fact still wider at 6m due to card removal at fr when these guys fold.

If you extrapolate more and say playing 3 handed has the same range of hands as fr (except only when btn, sb and bb) then the difference becomes even more pronounced due to card removal and the ranges at 3 handed will be a fair bit wider.

But in reality 6m and fr are the same game and it only takes a little work for a winner at one form to switch to another and i think your point (about it roughly just being more wide spots at 6m rather than ranges being far wider) is probably accurate enough.
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11-21-2013 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
But in reality 6m and fr are the same game and it only takes a little work for a winner at one form to switch to another
Don't a lot of solid winners at FR have trouble moving to 6max though? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head but im sure there are some who've tried to make the transition and ended up going back to FR.

Perhaps I'm mistaken though.
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11-21-2013 , 05:56 PM
Yeah but these are traditionally the people who play a massive amount of tables and immediately jump into a ton of 6m tables as well afaik. I think starting at 6 max is going to be way better for your poker career rather than switching when you get to mid stakes like I did since higher winrates are possible at 6m and it promotes creativity whereas FR promotes robotic play.
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11-21-2013 , 06:16 PM
Main reason why micro players should stick to FR is variance imo. If you are a nl10 grinder odds are you are not capable of handling a 20 buy in downswing (way more likely in 6max).
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11-21-2013 , 06:35 PM
So where do we draw the line ?

If someone is used to earning a certain bb/100 earn rate playing 18 FR tables then at what point should he move over the 6 max and play 6 tables ?

In theory does he not have to win at around 4.5 times the bb/100 rate due to playing less tables and getting through less hands.

Is he really going to do that at 6 max ?, and if so will that compensate for the emotional roller coaster with the bigger swings involved in 6 tabling 6 max ?

I can see why certain players are reluctant to make the switch ... me included even though i enjoy 6 max when i do play it.
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11-21-2013 , 06:47 PM
Depends on what you want from poker imo, playing FR until small stakes seems like an opportunity cost scenario as the transition will be tougher.

Considering hourly at the micro depends on the player too i guess, the micros should generally be a stepping stone to small/mid stakes where our focus is to learn, and making money is to build our BR.
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11-21-2013 , 07:15 PM
yeah think isunk hits the nail on the head.

It would be easier to learn 6m from the start but myself and plenty of other fr players did it at small stakes rather than earlier.

I took a bit of coaching but found the switch relatively painless since i wasn't 24 tabling... If you're a good winner at fr then there is no reason why you can't be a good winner at 6m. The nuances are slightly different but it's only practice. Now i play far more 6m than fr but feel comfortable playing both.

The reason i concentrated on fr in the first place was mainly because i found playing with tighter ranges easier and there was generally less variance, there are plenty of reasons to switch or stick to fr, really is person dependant.
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11-21-2013 , 07:20 PM
I think is a bit naive to think that you have to start playing 6max so when you get to midstakes u dont have to transition. Most likely scenario u never get to midstakes, even small stakes (nl100).

Plus, even in case you get to nl100 you can win the same than playing 6max if you play fullring in nl100 (maybe wrong in this but i really doubt it).

The hands/hour argument is pointless too because tough u play less hands per table in fullring you can play more tables if you play fr than 6 max. So the hands/hour should not decrease unless you can 20 table+ 6 max.
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11-21-2013 , 07:22 PM
I think far too many of us turned pro/became dependent on poker monies far too soon.

You become unable to do important stuff like move up stakes and out of your comfort zone, and to sacrifice some short-term profitability for long term gains (like switching to 6max).
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11-21-2013 , 07:28 PM
The 1,7 bb additional rake could be partially or completely compensated by the increase of winrate that sharing the fish w just just 5 guys and not 8.

So the only reason to change to 6 max imo is if you meet this requirements:

You are good bumhunting
You can handle swings (40 buyns dowswing in worst case scenario)
You think you are prolly winning more vs 6max regs than againts fr regs.

You enjoy it more (?)
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11-21-2013 , 07:32 PM
Yeah that seems fair, it was at zoom fwiw where 4 tables of FR allows the same hands/hour as 6max roughly so the unless my WR was 1.7bb/100 higher, I was making less due to the rake.

Quote:
You enjoy it more (?)
I think this is massively underrated, moving to a new game because you think you'll make more money is solid reasoning but it becomes far more stressful if you don't enjoy it nor will you have the same motivation.
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11-21-2013 , 07:40 PM
On the other hand ... if your going to 4 table Zoom, then 6 max is a more viable option than FR.

In theory your going to play the same amount of hands but your win rate would / should be higher at 6 max ?
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11-21-2013 , 09:03 PM
In 6max each hand is more work (you VPIP more) so you play less hands. So for a player to make the same amount of money at 6max and FR they would need to have a higher winrate. Assuming players' skill at 6max and FR are equivalent, 6max would have higher winrates, otherwise people would switch to FR.
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11-21-2013 , 11:47 PM
Actually if you can 24 table 6max you will get more hands than you would get 24 tabling FR. Even if what you said was true, it would still be partially compensated by you getting more VPPs and thus more rakeback at 6max.
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11-22-2013 , 12:55 AM
24 tabling thing shouldn't affect a lot of people.

Also the more VPPs thing adds to the 6max has higher winrates. It makes sense to group winrate with rakeback since the units are the same.
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11-22-2013 , 01:26 AM
Played some more 4 table zoom 6M 25NL....now Im finding 4 table zoom FR to be too slow
Seems like I ran into some bad variance last time, I'll be back at 50NL once I grinded some of my losses back.

I think some people are getting the mindset wrong for 6M. You shouldn't think about playing a wider range vs villian, you should think about playing against villian's wider range.
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11-22-2013 , 02:20 AM
Is 1.7 bb/100 really the difference between the rake at 6 handed vs 9 handed? I just ran numbers for 600nl and got 2.375 bb/100 vs 1.75 bb/100 paid in rake (6m vs FR). This 0.625 bb difference is easily compensated for by much higher winrates (my winrate with 6 players is ~2x that of with 9 players). Obviously if the 1.7 bb/100 difference it's harder to overcome, but still probably doable. Another reason that 6m produces higher winrates is that fish generally play much worse at 6m in comparison to FR.
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11-22-2013 , 02:41 AM
I ****ing hate fr. Switched to 6max this year and loving it. Granted things haven't gone smoothly all the time, but no more do you have to worry about making nitfolds. It's actually alot more fun for me, which is the main reason I play poker. It might be frustrating for those who aren't comfortable with pf wars or "wider" ranges, but I really enjoy it.
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