How much extra EV does a more complicated strategy have to add before we implement it? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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How much extra EV does a more complicated strategy have to add before we implement it?

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02-09-2021 , 09:39 AM

BestToEverDoIt?

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 171

How much extra EV does a more complicated strategy have to add over a simper one before we look to incorporate it into our game?

For instance, there are lots of spots where the EV differential between, say, an cbet 1/3 or check strat and a pure betting strat is basically nothing (0.02bb or even less), so we generally just implement the simpler strategy. But what is the cut-off point, would we still be implementing the simpler strategy if it yielded .05 bbs fewer in EV?

I know it's more complicated than what I've outlined, we have to factor in how villains react etc, but I'm just looking for rules of thumb.

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02-09-2021 , 09:53 AM

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,439

I've seen a lot of people say 2%, but I'm pretty sure that's mostly pulled out of their ass.

Depends on your proficiency in implementing the more difficult strategy and/or future nodes in the game tree and how you and the villain will play them between strategies 1. and 2.

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02-09-2021 , 10:01 AM

BestToEverDoIt?

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 171

Thanks Broken, I was hoping you'd jump in

I remember you saying in another thread that one third'ing it is often preferable to other strategies as villains struggle to implement the tricky high frequency check/raising strategy that is required as a counter. After playing a decent amount at the micros recently I'm inclined to agree with you.

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02-09-2021 , 10:12 AM

bailashtoreth

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 2,326

Part of the problem with trying to implement a complex strategy is that you may not see the particular situation reemerge for a year or more. (Gto strategy depends on stack size, pot size, both villain and hero bet sizes, exact board runout, villain range and strategy, etc, etc.) Not to mention the fact that our assumptions that we insert in the sim may be completely wrong for a particular opponent.

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02-09-2021 , 10:27 AM

BestToEverDoIt?

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 171

Quote:

Originally Posted by bailashtoreth

I didn't specify this in the OP, but I was mainly thinking about c-betting sizes and the like. So spots that come up a lot but for which EV differences between strategies are generally going to be minimal.

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02-09-2021 , 01:14 PM

Iblis

veteran

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 3,361

Quote:

Originally Posted by BestToEverDoIt?

Thanks Broken, I was hoping you'd jump in

Is that even true anymore though? 1/3 pot cbets have been a thing for a long time now.

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02-09-2021 , 03:17 PM

BestToEverDoIt?

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 171

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iblis

Is that even true anymore though? 1/3 pot cbets have been a thing for a long time now.

I think most micros regs know that they have to check/raise a lot but are then completely lost OOP on the turn. IIRC, Brokenstars made the point that any mistakes they then make are going to be in a bigger, c-raised pot and therefore more significant.

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02-09-2021 , 05:28 PM

Ramius

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 2,150

GL playing perfect gto against people who cbet 80+% or float 70%

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02-10-2021 , 02:58 PM

blurrox

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 96

If you can perfectly apply the complicated strat and V plays optimally against both I would say from the moment it is higher EV even if only 0.01bb. But those assumptions will never be true.

I would just focus on using a simple strategy where Villains will make the most mistakes against and start from there. If V or pool catch up, adjust your strategy and make life hard again for them.

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