Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 1(BB)
SB ($99) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 5]
BB ($119) [VPIP: 33.3% | PFR: 26.7% | AGG: 75% | Hands: 16]
HJ ($117.89) [VPIP: 12.5% | PFR: 6.3% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 16]
HERO ($114.47) [VPIP: 25.1% | PFR: 20.4% | AGG: 37.4% | Flop Agg: 40.2% | Turn Agg: 39.6% | River Agg: 35.9% | 3-Bet: 8.9% | 4-Bet: 10.9% | Hands: 125035]
BTN ($117.57) [VPIP: 35.7% | PFR: 35.7% | AGG: 66.7% | Flop Agg: 100% | Turn Agg: 50% | River Agg: 50% | 3-Bet: 25% | Fold to 3-Bet: 0% | 4-Bet: 0% | Hands: 16]

Dealt to Hero: Q A

HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $2.50, BTN Raises To $9, SB Folds, BB Folds, HERO Calls $6.50

Hero SPR on Flop: [5.41 effective]
Flop ($19.50): 9 5 Q
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $6 (Rem. Stack: $102.57), HERO Calls $6 (Rem. Stack: $99.47)

Turn ($31.50): 9 5 Q 4
HERO Checks, BTN Checks

River ($31.50): 9 5 Q 4 J
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $45.93 (Rem. Stack: $56.64), HERO Calls $45.93 (Rem. Stack: $53.54)



I checked river expecting to bluffcatch, but this person tanked for quite a while OTR, and as it went on it got me thinking about how it seems like a ton of tank bets are bluffs. What are people's thoughts? I might've agonized over this for a second or so if they didn't tank for 28 seconds, instead I snapped

Kind of depends on the player.

Anytime I've seen your typical 22/18 reg use a lot of their timebank on the river, and then bet, they almost always have it.

I don't know if they are actually taking that long to make a decision, or if they think it makes them look unsure/weak.


Snap pot size bets from fish I find to be pretty bluff heavy.

i've actually spent a lot of time over the years trying to define "timing tells" and never found anything consistent, a few of the threads here on them all disagree too

i think they exist but are player dependent

for example, me tanking is more likely cause i'm in midst of something else rather than actually playing poker

but yeah, agreed that if you're on the fence about calling, if they tank then perhaps that's enough to click that call button

I agree, it's pretty meaningless for a reg, but for a fish it definitely increases the likelihood of a bluff

fish have insane timing tells.
snap calls are very often either medium strength hands or draws.
snap bets are often either bluffs or punts (2nd pair jamming river)

Regs have timing tells, but the problem is that some regs give off fake tells on purpose, mudding the whole thing.
On sn site I'd try to pay attention to specific regs and see their timing patterns

yeh fish snap call to send the message "my hand is so good i don't even have to think about it" in the hope you'll get scared and stop betting or w/e. i think throwing this trick back at them with your own medium strength hands is actually quite effective, too. the same way tank calling your nutted slow plays can help convince them you're weak.

fish tank calls are basically always bad hands that they know they shouldn't really be making but talk themselves into it.

i don't think fish snap bets are a very reliable tell. can easily be good hands imo. but you'll still naturally see a lot of bluffs and punts because they're fish.

Snap bets are sometimes value, but when it is, it's usually not strong enough to valuebet value. Kinda like a second pair that feels bad to do anything with, so they just close their eyes and snap bet

ha meh, sometimes sure. i think it can also be a hand so good on a previous street that they don't even care what the next card(s) is, they're just so excited to slam a pot bet in your face.

you will be equally if not more successful in your career ignoring the time that one spends responding to your decision than taking it into account when making decisions imo.

too many times have i seen “tank with AA” pre to fall for any timing tells, but at the same time enough people snap jam AA pre that you simply can’t ignore it.

as mentioned ITT, many regs are on too many tables for a timing tell to even exist

On average it usually takes people longer to consider to bluff than to consider value betting. So very generally speaking longer timings are usually weaker. More and more regs these days balance their timings a bit, so its not as accurate as it used to be, but the general trend is as stated.

One timing tell that I find especially useful is when people take awhile to open raise pre-flop. I find that it usually means that they are in the middle or bottom of their range. The idea is that they will find their way to exciting hands more quickly, but might take a bit of time to click raise with a "boring" hand. I am more likely to bluff 3bet someone if they take awhile to open raise.

On the other hand, I find that very fast open raises are often the upper middle-top of their range, but maybe not the super premiums. With QQ+, many people become conscious of their timing and might wait a few seconds. So if I see an insta-open raise, I expect a lot of AJ-AK, suited broadways, and 88-JJ type stuff.

I am surprised that so many people feel that slower actions are often bluffs. I often interpret slow river bets as being a tough sizing decision with a strong hand. "How to I squeeze the maximum out of this guy?"

Yeah I agree on that 100%. Also regs can simply be busy managing any of their 12 tables while you think they are tanking.

Could be true on other sites, but you can only play 4 tables on Bovada/Ignition

Nothing stops you from playing on multiple networks at the same time though (unless there is only one available where you at).

Is there any software that can track how much time they took to make a decision?

i know people that have used such software. dunno what it's called but could probably find out if you needed me to.

I use software that does that, but it depends on the site that you're playing on. Even HM2 is able to do this.

Do find it useful?

In some spots for sure. If you're playing 8+ tables, you'll miss some timing tells without it, as you're not paying constant attention.

I can imagine. Can you tell me what is the name of that program(for acr) or how to setup in HM?
Dose HM saves this as part of HH?

I don't play on ACR, so I don't know. I think that you need NoteCaddy for HM2/HM3 to make the timing thing work. It will be saved in HHs as I remember, but only for those hands that you played with the stat on (not the past hands in the DB).

I play on bovada, yes you can only play 4 tables, but if you happen to get 4 playable hands at once that all make it post flop and you have a couple tough decisions you can end up running down the time bank on another table not even meaning to. I dont think a timing tell is useful on its own but I've found people tend to have monsters when they've been quick throughout the hand and suddenly they tank down to nothing before jamming. Sometimes I do that on a bluff though to throw someone off or if my wife is trying to show me home decor options while I'm in the middle of a hand, so i try not to read too much into timing tells.

Although I agree with the notion others have put forward that a fish check calling very quickly is basically always a draw or wear pair. They are announcing their intent to call down to try and keep you from betting too much.

when they're tanking on one table they're more likely to play more mechanical on the other ones

yes, starscaption does this

So much honestly. I frequently throughout sessions make decisions on timing tells, particularly against fish.

Mainly, the snap decision. A snap call or snap check by a weak player just tells me their hand is one that they knew they were calling and didnt have to think, typically a weak hand that wants to go to showdown. I use these reads a ton OTR, in combination with other factors (board, HUD, sizings) and its almost never off, atleast against fish.