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Is calling always better for flush draw or always raise when IP Is calling always better for flush draw or always raise when IP

09-15-2015 , 06:34 PM
villain 22/17 3bet 11.4% AF 1.2 aggression % 28 (sample size 657)
my thought was that he would just flat my raise
is this all standard or he should've just flatted?
i'm curious how he can played it differently

    Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37118185

    BTN: $26.12 (104.5 bb)
    SB: $11.73 (46.9 bb)
    BB: $27.61 (110.4 bb)
    UTG: $56.86 (227.4 bb)
    Hero (MP): $26.81 (107.2 bb)
    CO: $35.57 (142.3 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is MP with K J
    UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, BB raises to $3, Hero calls $2.25

    Flop: ($6.10) 3 6 5 (2 players)
    BB bets $4, Hero raises to $10, BB raises to $24.61 and is all-in, Hero calls $13.81

    Turn: ($53.72) 3 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    River: ($53.72) 8 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: $53.72 pot ($2.00 rake)
    Final Board: 3 6 5 3 8
    BB showed K K and won $25.86 (-$0.95 net)
    Hero showed K J and won $25.86 (-$0.95 net)



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    Is calling always better for flush draw or always raise when IP Quote
    09-15-2015 , 07:44 PM
    I d just toss this pre tbh. He is 3betting pretty big and we are raising from 2nd position so dont really think our hand plays too well here. As for postflop in general I prefer calling in position here. Its much harder for him to play oop and we can still bluff turns if he checks.
    Is calling always better for flush draw or always raise when IP Quote
    09-16-2015 , 12:29 AM
    Flat pre is ok just marginal - likewise flat flop and apply pressure on later streets or you might be fortunate and bink sdv ott.
    Is calling always better for flush draw or always raise when IP Quote
    09-16-2015 , 03:33 AM
    Flat pre is only going to be okay if he 3b bluffs or 3bs weaker hands like AQ, 1010, etc. he has a high 3b % so calling is fine, but fold or 4b is also going to be close to 0EV, I'd fold pre and I'd just flat flop, but raising isn't awful.
    Is calling always better for flush draw or always raise when IP Quote
    09-16-2015 , 04:12 AM
    problem with raising here is that you dont have much of the sets in ur range when u flat this as MP vs bb 3bet.

    BTN or CO vs blinds would be a different story, but then i'd still flat I think as u got two overs + backdoor flushdraw so ur hand is strong enough to just call with
    Is calling always better for flush draw or always raise when IP Quote
    09-16-2015 , 06:49 AM
    Take the words 'always' and 'never' out of your poker vocabulary.
    Is calling always better for flush draw or always raise when IP Quote
    09-16-2015 , 08:40 AM
    Folding pre is really weak since were IP and is really exploitable imo.

    Flatting the flop is fine, if he checks turn we can stab. If he bets turn I think we can fold.
    Is calling always better for flush draw or always raise when IP Quote
    09-16-2015 , 10:53 AM
    he 3-bet to 12 bb, so it isnt this exploitable to fold, because now we call nearly 10% of our stack.
    Looks like he 3-bets higher with his very strong range and so KJs could be dominated lot of time and our romm for play post is just a total different thing if we would raise 2 bb and he 3-bet to 7 bb.
    So because of this size i think we can fold and look if he has this size in other hands to.

    Now i see the spoiler, now you know he is overprotecting his KK+ here with this size and you dont have enouph behind.

    You have to look for this sizing tells, he just didnt want to fold post, so he thought "Lets raise it big, he cant setmine or Flushmine here !"

    And after you called and you hit FD and you know he is top of his range, now calling is very +EV, but raising is -EV.

    20% of time you hit FD and pot is 14 Dollar then you only have to win 6 more, you can allway call here, also if he folds much, i would raise oop agaisnt a looser 3-bet range because we cant potbuilding that good oop.

    Last edited by philkill; 09-16-2015 at 11:03 AM.
    Is calling always better for flush draw or always raise when IP Quote
    09-16-2015 , 12:07 PM
    Fold preflop. I'd more likely call if we were OTB, but being in MP means this 3b isn't as likely to be a bluff.

    And definitely flat the flop. Your raise puts him in a shove or fold mode and isolates you against only his value hands. If he does ever call, you're in pretty big crap. He isn't flatting with AJ or AQ against your raise. There are merits to raising, to be sure, but there are just more merits to flatting, keeping the pot small, and keeping his range wider.
    Is calling always better for flush draw or always raise when IP Quote
    09-16-2015 , 12:13 PM
    The size is just all saying he raised from 3 bb to 12 bb, i would like to setmine here 150 bb deep with 99 if he dont fold his AA, but with deeper stack i think you have not better implied odds, because with 200 bb you cant think they broke with overpair in a 20 bb pot.
    Often times you have even less, because they call to a shove to 100 bb but if you have 150 and raise big at river they might fold and you only win say 55 bb from them.
    Is calling always better for flush draw or always raise when IP Quote

          
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