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3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor 3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor

04-06-2014 , 08:59 PM
22/17
3b 10% total, 15% from blinds
cbet 57%
c/r 14%
3.7k hands


this guy 3bets way too much out of the blinds, fold to 4b 70%. i have no idea what he's doing on the flop, maybe i induced spazz, maybe he leveling me, idk.


Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($66.51)
BB ($52.69)
UTG ($89.84)
Hero ($50.75)
CO ($50.75)
BTN ($59.53)

Dealt to Hero Q A

fold, Hero raises to $1.50, fold, fold, fold, BB raises to $4.75, Hero calls $3.25

FLOP ($9.75) A 5 2

BB checks, Hero bets $3, BB raises to $13.50, Hero calls $10.50

TURN ($36.75) A 5 2 K

BB bets $34.44 (AI), Hero
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-06-2014 , 09:41 PM
easy fold on the turn.

I think flop is an okay call, because he could be doing that with worse Ax and sets. When he does shove turn though, i take most worse Ax out of his range and put mostly sets.
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-06-2014 , 10:15 PM
dno whats up with flop sizing but you pretty much have to call down as played

bet bigger on flop tho
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-06-2014 , 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtySprite
dno whats up with flop sizing but you pretty much have to call down as played

bet bigger on flop tho
What are you beating?
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-06-2014 , 11:56 PM
It is GTO correct to call down here with AQo =D(assuming you call a 14% range pre against him), also your small sizing might have induced a spaz. Although AQo is the very bottom of your calling range GTO wise, which is interesting and is what makes it a tough spot. So I would say... go with your gut.
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-07-2014 , 04:10 AM
I think I'd just bet the flop bigger. I'd probably sigh-call the flop raise in position putting him on some sets/2pair/fds/and some air if he is really that aggro. When spade drops on the turn and he shoves I think his range narrows down to a lot of made hands, mostly flushes, and folding should be pretty easy.
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-07-2014 , 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Schupick
What are you beating?
anything that chk raised bluff the flop gay bet with a spade.
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-07-2014 , 07:29 AM
4k hands and 14% check raise. You any idea what that means post flop? I.e. always sets or always draws etc. Something he does in 3 bet pots or never done it before?

Small bet is OK if was on purpose I.e. he check raises draws too much, bet small to induce, shove over the top. If not I don't get it.
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-07-2014 , 07:52 AM
When we call flop it should make turn a pretty easy decision.

Decision is on the flop, you either fold because you think he has it (his line is very polarising) or we call because we think he's full of it. So what were you expecting on turns, him to c/f ?

I think folding flop isn't bad readless, calling down is ok if he is c/r'ing out of line (and the fact that he is 3b'ing wide and our sizing could induce might sway my decision) but calling flop to even think about folding any turn is terrible IMO.

We should have an idea about his c/r'ing range here after almost 4k hands. We should also have a plan when we call flop.

Last edited by samcx; 04-07-2014 at 08:01 AM.
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-07-2014 , 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetallpaul
4k hands and 14% check raise. You any idea what that means post flop? I.e. always sets or always draws etc. Something he does in 3 bet pots or never done it before?

Small bet is OK if was on purpose I.e. he check raises draws too much, bet small to induce, shove over the top. If not I don't get it.
I wish I had a set or draw 14% of this time here.
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-07-2014 , 10:29 AM
Just because he 3 bets a lot from the blinds , that doesn't mean that he's 3 betting light from the BB vs MP
I think flating AQo is a mistake , because those stats mean nothing , he prob just 3 bets light from the blinds vs late position steal
Would flat AQs QQ AKs , would 4bet AQo AKo KK+ being AQo a 4 bet as a bluff
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-07-2014 , 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartimC
Just because he 3 bets a lot from the blinds , that doesn't mean that he's 3 betting light from the BB vs MP
I think flating AQo is a mistake , because those stats mean nothing , he prob just 3 bets light from the blinds vs late position steal
Would flat AQs QQ AKs , would 4bet AQo AKo KK+ being AQo a 4 bet as a bluff
Those ranges are terrible if you think he is 3betting wide.
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-07-2014 , 11:51 AM
In case you can't read , i don't think he's 3 betting wide
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-07-2014 , 11:54 AM
Villain probably has a tighter range then the 14% or so 3-bet you give him since you are opening from MP. I think we can narrow his stat down by almost 1/2.

Why bet the flop when he checks? Why would a thinking player ever check a perfect C-betting board? You gotta ask yourself. Also why would he check raise a flush draw when he can just safely C-bet it on the flop on such a nice board. I would put his range on TT-AA mainly, then weaker aces that are looking to go for two streets of value and then the occasional spaz hands and weird played two pair and set hands if he even 3-bets low pairs from the blinds.

What does betting the flop accomplish when we expect villain to have this range? It makes TT-KK really contemplate their hand now. Ax weak kickers will now call your flop bet. Spaz hands might raise and weird played two pair and sets might call or might raise depending how he is feeling and you bet so small he might just feel obligated to try to build the pot, so your bet doesn't really make it easy for you to figure out where you are at but most importantly it is not the most +EV line you can take.

I like checking back the flop for multiple reasons. It allows us to go for two streets of value against hands that might call us down and it allows our villain to now bet his KK-TT type hands for value from lower middle pair type hands and also gets us closer to showdown at a cheaper price with a semi good hand.

As played we don't think he has that many check raising flushes in his range since it is a perfect board for him to C-bet it. Which makes his range likely nutted or air type hands which are possible with your small bet. I think we have to call the turn off here and take note.
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-07-2014 , 12:18 PM
^ We can bet three streets here vs weak Ax, he should be betting AK so theres not much to worry about in terms of value owning ourselves.
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-07-2014 , 12:21 PM
^ I would add AK to his range there which is both a likely hand for a 3bet in these positions and also would explain the turn shove now that there are 3 spades on board.
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote
04-07-2014 , 12:28 PM
Why would anyone not bet AK otf here? Seems ******ed, then again I don't have a c/r'ing range here so you can't rule it out.

When he checks I would assume his range to likely be TT-KK, and probably AJ/AT, or A9-A2s that aren't 2pair, and when he c/r's he either has 2p, a set or complete air and the occasional badly played AK I guess which is why as I said, the decision IMO is OTF not turn. I don't think you can assume anyone c/r'ing air without reads which is why I think a flop fold is fine.

Last edited by samcx; 04-07-2014 at 12:36 PM.
3b pot facing c/r from 3bettor Quote

      
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