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2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel 2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel

07-14-2015 , 08:39 AM
PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 139 BB (VPIP: 22.55, PFR: 20.59, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 104)
BTN: 103.5 BB (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
Hero (SB): 127.5 BB
BB: 60 BB (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)
UTG: 123.5 BB (VPIP: 47.22, PFR: 2.78, 3Bet Preflop: 5.26, Hands: 39)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q J

fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) K Q J
Hero checks, CO bets 6 BB, Hero calls 6 BB

Turn: (19 BB, 2 players) 3
Hero checks, CO bets 15 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

River: (49 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, CO bets 40 BB

Villain is 23\21, infinite AF, CO raise first in 43, F cbet 60. Only 104 hands.

I've seen him betting coordinated boards with air and weak draws, so AT, JT and J9 are almost certainly in his range otf and ott given the fact that I check the turn. So I fell comfortable x/calling these two streets, but I'm in the dark otr. Don't know if he is betting straights and two pairs there, otherwise this is a fold imo.

What do you guys think, can we call the river here vs this kind of villain?

What about if he is totally unknown?
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 08:41 AM
Fold pre.

As played never folding.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 08:50 AM
Fold pre? Why??

Am I blind? I never fold this river. I would consider raising tho. But probably just call
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 08:51 AM
104 hands is well enough for catogirizing him. he does not look like a maniac-type player to me.

his sizing and line looks like pure value IMO.

how many times did you see him cbet/bet the turn?
if you had 10 opportunities (but I don't think thats the case with 104 hands in total) and his cbet is low it's value again

call this river. if he isn't betting this big I would raise here, but I think calling is enough. if he has KK/QQ I would take a note on his sizing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Homsi
Fold pre? Why??
I think because it's 2NL. We end up OOP vs a very aggressive player in a general passive player pool.
I would choose to fight for my blinds against other player types at 2NL.
If he is relentlessly attacking my blind I would consider fighting back or just move to another table. 2NL got plenny
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homsi
Fold pre? Why??

Am I blind? I never fold this river. I would consider raising tho. But probably just call
This hand is just too weak. You're probably a dog vs his CO range, you're oop and you're not closing the action.

It's fine to call in the BB, but not the SB imo.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 09:27 AM
Maybe I am a fish but no way I am folding - hands we are behind KK (3 combinations), QQ (1), KJ (3), versus hands we are ahead AA (6), AK (12), KQ (6), AT (16); that's 85% of his range that we beat. I also think he would call down a shove reasonably often with AT, and sometimes AA or a disgusted KQ... I think I shove here.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neok
Fold pre.

As played never folding.
This.

Can't ever fold this river. If he does end up having KK / QQ / KJ, have my money. But we do to well against his range.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 09:35 AM
I like this line. I probably jam the river after he bets. The jam is only an additional 60bb on top of villain's 40bb bet, so I expect to be called by straights, Jacks, kq, maybe AK as well as bigger full houses.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 09:37 AM
Perfect hand to c/c 3 times. Only call w/ this if bb is a fish. He seems to be of course but one of the more reggy looking one's.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpman84
I like this line. I probably jam the river after he bets.
Huge mistake. You should only be jamming the nuts and air that has some sort of blockers. Not some low/at best medium value hand.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 10:01 AM
You should not worry about squeezing on this limit. I call pre vs generally wide stealing range. I think calling/folding depends on how well you can play postflop.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EC2200
Huge mistake. You should only be jamming the nuts and air that has some sort of blockers. Not some low/at best medium value hand.
Our jam is only 60 bb over his 40bb bet. We aren't exactly over bet shoving. Our hand is very underrepresented and villain will be inclined to call with hands we beat due to the price being offered. We have the 4th nuts on a straight board and we block two of the hands that are beating us. . I think we'd be losing value by not jamming here.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 12:55 PM
Fold pre, can 3-bet if CO is particularly wide (30%+)

Jamming river is pry fine at 2nl, guy still has 109 and A10 and they aren't folding at 2nl I don't think. That's a lot of combos. Of course, if you think they do fold, then jamming is obviously bad.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homsi
Am I blind? I never fold this river. I would consider raising tho. But probably just call
If he is not betting all his AA, KQ and straights otr, this big, while checked to him, we are crushed then. The best scenario would be splitting the pot if he is holding very unlikely QJ (only two possible combos).

The problem is that we don't have that information based on 104 hands. We could asume that he is betting all of above mentioned hands because he is aggressive.

Folding pre could be correct, because that 43 CO open raise percentage is based on a small sample.

Last edited by DatoGio; 07-14-2015 at 02:26 PM.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatoGio
If he is not betting all his AA, KQ and straights otr while checked to him, we are crushed then. The best scenario would be splitting the pot if he is holding very unlikely QJ (only two possible combos).

The problem is that we don't have that information based on 104 hands.
I don't see why he's not betting all his value hands. We've shown no strength to this point. In his spot, I'm definitely betting straights here at least.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 02:31 PM
Yes betting, but as a thin value bet for weak hands to be able to call. Pot sized bet with AA, KQ and straights is a poor decission at 2nl and outstanding bluff at high stackes imo.

Last edited by DatoGio; 07-14-2015 at 02:41 PM.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 02:45 PM
FWIW, if he only calls a jam with AT, T9, KK, QQ, KJ and QJ, we have 77% equity against that group of hands.

Obviously, if he's only calling a jam with a boat, then we should just call, but I think that is probably wrong to assume he won't call 60 more bb without a boat.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 02:58 PM
I think after the action that we've seen from villain, he is holding boat atleast 90% of the time here.

Don't know maybe I'm biased, because I called and we split the pot. But I think folding was correct play here.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 03:10 PM
Oh man...I'm never folding there. I didn't even consider it an option. I can't imagine that is the correct play.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 03:15 PM
Would you fold vs nit?
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote
07-14-2015 , 05:00 PM
I'm not a stats expert, but this guy doesn't appear to be a nit. We do know he has infinite post flop aggression though through the small sample.

Against a bit, I'd like to think I'd fold turn as there are a lot of combos we are losing to, whereas, otr, there are few. I'd call river if I made it there.
2nl defending SB with QJo vs CO opener, flop two pair coord board, river boat, face 3 barrel Quote

      
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