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25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way 25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way

10-19-2013 , 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calm Down
underrepped hand, close to top of our range, position, still turn and river to play

tbf, im not happy if we get bombed on turn and river, but folding flop is simply not an option
If you can fold when A or K comes and you fill up and still see aggression then calling flop I don't mind.

Still turn and river to play isn't a + at all, you can easily be dead on the flop right now. Close to the top of our range means nothing at all if we are always beat as well, using this excuse to make a -ev decision is stupid.

Yes we have an underrepped hand.

With the underrepped hand though we already block combo's of AQ so that is unlikely and he never raises KQ or anything worse here because of the possibility of TJ or AQ (I think anyway).

So even if our hand is underrepped by the time we overcall the flop call the turn, villain knows we must have a made hand anyway so we should be unlikely to get value from worse but still get stacked by better.

His raising range is too tight imo to continue here. AK still has outs to stack us and if he has TJ and a Q,K,A comes he shouldn't be getting stacked.

Position is good though.

Last edited by Yoshimiii; 10-19-2013 at 09:20 AM.
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-19-2013 , 07:25 PM
This is zoom, if we get this in 3 ways we have 1 out regardless of whether we are 'under repped' or not. But why BB would donk with J10 is beyond me, FWIW i think MP can be raising AK/AQ otf
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-19-2013 , 07:49 PM
Something to note is that MP is only playing $18.

I call and get it in on blank turns. Too strong of a hand to fold here when MP could be doing this with AK Kq Aq, and he's not even full stacked.

Think about how you'd play the hand if you were MP... You would definitely raise bb's weak looking donk bet with only 2 pair, at least I would.
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-19-2013 , 08:07 PM
another thing to note is that MP is playing 15/12 over 100 hands, prob more important than his stack size
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-19-2013 , 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PantherXYZ
another thing to note is that MP is playing 15/12 over 100 hands, prob more important than his stack size
Doesn't really tell us how nitty he is post. I'm not about to look at a guy whose playing 15/12 and only give him AA KK and j10 here. Even nits would raise 2 pair over a weak donk bet on this flop.
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-21-2013 , 03:58 PM
3 bet pre, please.
As played, I think calling is fine. Wouldn't mind jamming tho, only losing to JT.
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-21-2013 , 06:06 PM
Grunch - shove as played.calling looks stronger
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-21-2013 , 07:21 PM
lol no
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-22-2013 , 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PantherXYZ
lol no
cold calling eliminates the possibility of bluffs. jamming means there are still some x% bluffs in range/worse 2pair/semi draws.

cold calling pretty much makes your hand look exactly like a big 2pair or slowplayed set of qq.
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-22-2013 , 09:33 PM
i would say the complete opposite. jamming into a donk and raise from the positions looks like JT specifically, where as a call looks like a scared two pair or a fish with pair + draw who doesnt know how to fold.

Thinking that jamming looks weaker than flatting is absolutely absurd imo
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-22-2013 , 09:43 PM
wouldn't 3bet pre. and "perceived range" lol. do you think about this term even a bit? what's he supposed to perceive?
are you perceiving him flatting that he is always 3betting QQ in his shoes if you switched positions? what does that tell about your thought process? that you "think" that your "perceiption" of his range is automatically much better than his "perception" of your range. which is kind of awkward, don't you think?

as played, toss the tilting term "perceived range" already, and just call flop.

Last edited by SchDonk; 10-22-2013 at 09:49 PM.
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-22-2013 , 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchDonk
and "perceived range" lol. do you think about this term even a bit? what's he supposed to perceive?
are you perceiving him flatting that he is always 3betting QQ in his shoes if you switched positions? what does that tell about your thought process?
The point is that so many regs are auto-3betting QQ in this spot hero's range isn't capped as heavily as villain probably thinks.
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-22-2013 , 09:51 PM
yeah, that's a misconception of the regs imo.
maybe i'm a bit too emotional on the subject, tho. it just tilts me. glhf!

ps: i'm alread tilted by powerpoint and excel. maybe i should take a step back and let the infamous "perceived range" concept run its course.

pps: maybe you are assuming too little of the regs to be auto3betting QQ in this spot. maybe.

Last edited by SchDonk; 10-22-2013 at 10:14 PM.
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-23-2013 , 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PantherXYZ
i would say the complete opposite. jamming into a donk and raise from the positions looks like JT specifically, where as a call looks like a scared two pair or a fish with pair + draw who doesnt know how to fold.

Thinking that jamming looks weaker than flatting is absolutely absurd imo
Give me a realistic range of a reg thats at least breaking even is going to be cold calling on this board. Tell me how many strong hands there are vs bluffs/draws
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-23-2013 , 04:37 AM
Be realistic, there are no bluffs in villain's calling/shoving range here.
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-23-2013 , 11:46 AM
A realistic range for a reg to cold call might be something like AK/QQ/AQ/KQ/JT, there jamming range might be QQ (if they're terrible) and JT
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote
10-23-2013 , 05:51 PM
I feel like preflop should be a 3bet, we only have 100 hands on him and it's entirely possible he can call with 10's or JJ's pre.
25NL Zoom: Underrepped bottom set faces donk bet and raise on broadway flop 3way Quote

      
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