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20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor 20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor

11-18-2014 , 05:08 PM
Hi there,
Two hands I have no idea if my play was right. First hand I think was played really badly. I should have bet bigger flop and not reraised turn to control pot and being able to call all non-heart rivers I imagine...
What are your thoughts ?

    IPoker, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #32739412

    BTN: $60.18 (300.9 bb)
    SB: $20 (100 bb)
    BB: $30.14 (150.7 bb)
    MP: $28.81 (144 bb)
    Hero (CO): $18.68 (93.4 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with A Q
    MP folds, Hero raises to $0.60, BTN calls $0.60, 2 folds

    Flop: ($1.50) Q 3 K (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.85, BTN calls $0.85

    Turn: ($3.20) 4 (2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN bets $2.24, Hero raises to $5, BTN calls $2.76

    River: ($13.20) J (2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN bets $7.92, Hero folds




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    Second hand vs an aggressive late position player. Plays virtually every hand from the Dealer or SB. Has a tendency to cbets.
    I was pretty much sure he would have been folding up to KQ. I thought that since I would have been playing TT, 88, 22, KQ, KT pretty much the same and since he flatted turn... it was not so bad.
    Now, considering all the missed FD, didn't think it was such a good play.

    I thought it was a good bluff. Was it ?
    What does 2+2 think? Please berate me softly, I'm learning too slow...

    Thanks guys

      IPoker, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #32739422

      BTN: $31.30 (156.5 bb)
      SB: $25.82 (129.1 bb)
      Hero (BB): $17.04 (85.2 bb)
      MP: $8 (40 bb)
      CO: $22.11 (110.6 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with J Q
      3 folds, SB raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.40

      Flop: ($1.20) 8 T 2 (2 players)
      SB bets $0.72, Hero calls $0.72

      Turn: ($2.64) K (2 players)
      SB bets $1.66, Hero raises to $4, SB calls $2.34

      River: ($10.64) 6 (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $11.72 and is all-in, SB calls $11.72

      Spoiler:
      Results: $34.08 pot ($1.70 rake)
      Final Board: 8 T 2 K 6
      SB showed K A and won $32.38 ($15.34 net)
      Hero mucked J Q and lost (-$17.04 net)



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      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-18-2014 , 05:40 PM
      Yea the first hand is pretty weird. I like the flop Cbet, but i think we can c/f turn The minraise is very spewy, he isnt gonna fold anything.

      Second hand, i think i like just calling more then raising. I don't tink the raise is terrible but on that river im c/f. It doesnt change anything, if he's gonna call the turn, he's also calling the river.

      Mabye u should consider moving down in stakes?(no offense im playing lower atm)

      Last edited by Eltin; 11-18-2014 at 05:55 PM.
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-18-2014 , 05:53 PM
      Hand 1: Your turn checkraise is strange. What did you hope to accomplish with it? I would have probably just check called the flop in this hand.

      Hand 2: Meh, prefer a call on the turn. Give up on the river.
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-18-2014 , 05:56 PM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by PokerSparky
      Hand 1: Your turn checkraise is strange. What did you hope to accomplish with it? I would have probably just check called the flop in this hand.

      Hand 2: Meh, prefer a call on the turn. Give up on the river.
      I agree with these points.
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-21-2014 , 06:32 PM
      Yeah, I need to tilt less, these hands were clearly on tilt. A real issue for me.
      Worked a bit with Poker Mindset which helped tremendously, I also played around a bit with Jared Tendler's 1st book, I have a hard time disciplining and writing down what he is asking for...

      Thanks a lot guys, it helped me a lot to see how marginally played these hands were.
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-21-2014 , 06:43 PM
      H1: Flop is a pretty easy x/c. Turn is really spewy.

      H2: Just call again ott and occasionally bluffcatch when you hit a pair depending on sizing or bluff a **** ton when the rivers red and he checks. Also sometimes make the nuts which is cool. You're going to get looked up really light on a dece # of rivers vs your line because all you rep for value is turned two pairs.

      Also, a lot of his continuing range in H2 will want to 3b the turn on this texture and it blows to fold a hand that can make the nuts and get paid by the same value range he'll try and felt ott (since he won't fold the really strong parts of it (usually) even on flush completing rivers when you hit)).
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-21-2014 , 07:03 PM
      Quote:
      I should have bet bigger flop and not reraised turn to control pot
      Check/raising the turn to pot control makes less sense than I have a metaphor for.
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-21-2014 , 08:23 PM
      1st hand: i may b/f flop. if he calls i'm x/f'ing. not excited to raise turn with this hand/board texture. if im playing my range and decide to raise it would be more than 2.5x, but i would do that very rarely (almost never).

      2nd hand: im not 2.5x'ing the turn with my draw, this just bloats the pot. I'd prefer a call on turn, fold on river if i miss.

      some weird turn raises here. might be a leak

      dont bluff shove your whole stack when villain calls a turn raise. probably not a long run +EV play.
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-21-2014 , 10:50 PM
      The fact that you put "luckbox" in the thread title- really shows you didn't take enough away from The Mental Game of Poker by Tendler- and really need to revisit it. Or else you will NEVER be any good for any long stretch of time.
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-22-2014 , 12:11 AM
      What was your rationale behind check-raising turn in hand 1? If it was for value I don't think he's calling with many worse hands and if it was a bluff I don't think he's folding a king to such a small raise.
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-22-2014 , 06:17 AM
      H1: x/r makes no sense, are you trying to turn your hand into a bluff by repping flushes? You trying to get villain to fold Kx? I don't like it. Also, if you do choose to bluff like this, you HAVE to fire the river.

      I also like x/c flop and x/f turn.

      H2: if villain is aggro and cbetting a lot, I actually like a flop raise. You have 2 overs, a gutter and bd hearts, there are plenty of turns you can double barrel on.
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-29-2014 , 04:50 PM
      While rereading all of you, and continuing my break from Poker, I understand that these hands where worse than subpar.

      The H1 turn is like, well, terrible. I can't represent donk sheisse and it's really an obscure way of value betting my range.

      @Xander : You are absolutely right, why would I shove on a river blank? I mean... it's the absolute worse that I see from spewy players. I often don't have a hard time calling after every effing draw fell short OTR.
      And if I bluff OTT, I should be continuing OTR.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Bladesman87
      Check/raising the turn to pot control makes less sense than I have a metaphor for.
      Yep, I said "not reraised", like if I wanted to control pot, I should not have reraised.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by BlueBloodedToffee
      H1: x/r makes no sense, are you trying to turn your hand into a bluff by repping flushes? You trying to get villain to fold Kx? I don't like it. Also, if you do choose to bluff like this, you HAVE to fire the river.
      And you are absolutely right..! These hands are not representative of my A-Game. This is my worst C-Game... and this is why I agree with :

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by PhairEnglish
      The fact that you put "luckbox" in the thread title- really shows you didn't take enough away from The Mental Game of Poker by Tendler- and really need to revisit it. Or else you will NEVER be any good for any long stretch of time.
      That is my problem right now. Consistency.

      When I play my A-Game, I play a beautiful, sound, reasonable A-Game. I'm in line with theory, I read my opponents, I think about my range and how to profitably exploit them thanks to it, etc.
      I throw little risky bluffs. I put on bluffs which which are really right in the context.
      I think about my opponents' hands range and value correctly. I have no hard time folding TP or even an overpair when the action is really weird or seems against me, etc.

      A-game is all about a really smooth grinding chart, my C-game is all about a rollercoaster with huge drops and highs.

      When I play my C-Game, you just saw the results. It's constant aggression, or I am nitty-gritty and unleash hell with TP on any occasion.

      I know that if I think too much about the money, if I'm stuck financially for example, I play like a donk.
      If I think about playing to win, thinking about long term (so no "get rich quick thanks to poker, you are so clever, boy"), then I'm relaxed, thinking, and really able.

      I'm now able to identify when I'm in a bad mental state, I just don't act yet on it by stopping playing instantly and investing that energy in studying my game or a video instead.

      I will reread Jared Tendler and Poker Mindset and come back refreshed to the game.

      Thanks a lot to everybody for your input, I'm getting better thanks to you.
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-29-2014 , 06:47 PM
      no problem- good luck.

      It is something I'm working on right now- I had accumulated emotion and accumulated tilt.

      if you need any help- hand histories- tilt issues- reach out via pm.
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote
      11-29-2014 , 07:37 PM
      Getting emotional is always going to be -EV in poker.
      20NL, folding 2nd pair against agressive luckbox and bluffing against agressive LP Agressor Quote

            
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