becuase I didnt agree with your thoughts? I didnt insult them thats for sure...

this is aw-

this is most likely incorrect information.

see? it just doesnt have the same bite.

you sure about that?

ccuster probably also doesnt realize i know the poster whose thoughts i called "awful" IRL and have a tendency just to give him **** for the sake of giving him ****

but we are judging today. only warm fuzzies ITT.

custer is right, i remember i got laid like the first day of classes and then no girls wanted to give it up until like january.

its not the first time though karak, im just saying, you can discuss stuff anyway you like I just think it comes off pretty bad(and fwiw regarding this post you never actually said what was wrong you just went on your way like you were an omniscient god)

what year are you? If you dont know about freshies being so loose the first couple weeks you are def doing it wrong...go ask a girl you know...they will probably tell you, they know it...

And it wasnt advice its an observation, and could probably be said as a fact....

i'd tell you to just put me on ignore, but im a mod so the software wont let you do that.

pwneeed. no one else seems to have a problem with the way i post. im sorry you do. if they didnt like the way i responded, then they wouldnt ask me for advice or continue to converse with me. i spend a lot of time answering questions (as anyone on this thread can attest to as well as those who PM me), so i dont feel bad at all if i take liberties. if someone responding "this is awful" is really that hard on them, they shouldnt be on 2+2.

it's a tough world in here. also most people in this thread realize im being tongue-in-cheek/sarcastic half the time. it's highly likely you are taking me too seriously. for example when i responded to yeota... one of my best friends IRL.

and i graduated college already. and you're wrong, especially since your statement contained the word "every." higher probability? yes. every freshman girl in the world trying to have sex? not even close.

edit - and the post you quoted where i said brutally awful advice deserved much, much worse than what i said. i feel like i was going easy.

also the power brick on my laptop died approx. 45 minutes ago and i need to go buy a new one now and im on mega life tilt because of it. ill have to reconsider my responses to you when im off tilt.

Im not saying anybody actually took offense to your psots, i just thought as a mod it came off looking pretty bad...but too each his own i guess. And its not that i ahte your posts, I think you do a lot of good post in this forum and in this thread, I was just saying that you might want to rephrase statements later, obv you dont have to I was just trying to help.

I maybe every is a slight exaggeration...I should of said every - 1....

I have 2 girl situations I'm curious about. This first one is more just more to learn from my mistakes as it's very likely we just end up friends at this point, that said I think this girl is awesome and pretty attractive (Cornell 8/10 / real life 6.5-7/10 / OOT 3/10). It ended up longer than I thought and is sort of tldr so skip it if you want but I would like to hear feedback as I'm pretty confused by the situation.

Had a charity date auction at my frat house a few weeks ago. Given list of names only beforehand, I do a quick facebook search for everyone, see that one girl seems to be a big Yankees fan, great we have something in common. I go to auction, bid on her, talk for 10 mins, ask if she's a Yankee fan, she says no I'm from Indiana I'm pretty indifferent, different girl than I had searched, ups. I change subject unawkwardly tho, convo goes fine, I say I plan to take her to sort of upscale (for Ithaca, NY anyway) restaurant, she says that's great and we make plans for the following Friday (via that convo plus midweek calling/texting).

Given the situation I go into the date just trying to have a good time and if anything comes of it great, if not at least I had a good meal. We actually end up hitting it off pretty well, good convo throughout the dinner, lots of playful joking/teasing. We split a bottle of wine, apparently she doesn't drink a ton though and she has 2 glasses or so I have probably 3 and stop there because I'm full.

We catch a cab on the way to her place then mine, I wasn't trying to force the issue here as there wasn't really any physical contact to this point since we were across the dinner table the whole time. When we pull up to her place I tell her I had a great time and I'd like to see her again soon, she reaches over and starts touching my hand, I didn't really expect this so I just look up at her for 5 seconds, then decide f it and go in for the kiss. She kisses back but I just decide to make it a quick one and tell her good night and I'll call her soon.

Playful texting about inside jokes and common interests the next couple days. On Monday around noon (before Thanksgiving) I'm done with all my work and going home for break the next day. I text her with some more fun stuff, then ask when she's going home for break, she says tomorrow as well, I ask if she wants to come over and watch some Dexter (we talked about Dexter at dinner) before she left. She says she's busy but should have time later and she'll text me. She does text later but says she has too much work but asks for a rain check after break. Over break I text her once on Thanksgiving, we exchange a few, nothing special.

When I get back I text her asking how break was etc, she asks "Are we watching Dexter sometime?", we make plans to do it that Thurs but I also tell her that we have a formal that I just found out about that Friday and ask her to it, she replies that she has an important presentation on Saturday but she will see. I tell I understand but to let me know by the next day either way so I have time to ask others if she can't. Next day she texts me back "I can come " At this point I thought everything was looking pretty good, and she was taking 2 nights in a row out of her busy schedule to hang out.

Thurs I pick her up on campus at 7:30pm or so, when we arrive at my house she says she has alot of work to do and asks if I'll judge her if she brings some in to do while we watch, I say yes sarcastically, she laughs. We come in and go up to my room to watch, her work is a wood model for an architecture class. We sit next to each other on my bed, watch the show, some good talking throughout but when I try to initiate anything physical she just reacts neutrally, I put my arm around her and she didn't resist but didn't really give any positive reaction. I drop her off 1.5 hours later back on campus (yes she really is this busy...)

Friday we go to the formal, have a really good time (although she didn't drink much because of said presentation the following day). Some dancing, nothing especially close but some touching there, but honestly the DJ sucked and just didn't put on much that was great to dance to. We get a cab back in the same way as the first date, I wasn't trying to get invited in or anything b/c of her presentation. Again I try initiating contact and she's just neutral. When we get to her place I tell her I had a great time, she agrees, then I look into her eyes and go for the kiss....and she pulls back and says she thinks we should be friends. Ugh. As we were in the back of a cab the convo didn't go further than that.

Saturday I don't contact her, instead I drink heavily and hit on lots of other girls. I was too sloppy for this to work though, oh well it was still fun. Sunday I don't either, but Monday I try to call her and she doesn't answer, I text "Hey I don't like how we ended things on Friday, we should talk." She replies "Agreed, I'm busy now but will call later." She doesn't. Thursday rolls around and she still hasn't called, I text "I know ur busy but I'd love to talk, you do want to be friends right (prob puke, although fwiw I'd much rather be friends than nothing as I think she's really cool and I don't think the more than friends side has much potential at this point), she responds "Of course I do, things are just really hectic I'll call as soon as I can." I respond that that's great and gl with finals. Next day she sends a fun text out of the blue, I responded once with something that was funny/good imo, she responded back to that but I was at a party and stopped checking my phone. Today we exchanged 15 texts or so about fun stuff. Still really busy and we won't see each other before break though.

After reflecting myself I think the three most likely reasons for rejection were:

1. She likes my personality but isn't physically attracted.

Makes sense because she's admittedly better looking than me and in better shape (not looking for advice with regards to this, I know it's important to work on and I do). However it conflicts with the fact that she took 2 days out of a very busy schedule to hang out. This leads me to believe that something I did during those last 2 meetings is more likely, such as:

2. I interacted with her in a way that made her see me as a friend and not a romantic lead.

This is very possible and admittedly I need work here. But I did playfully tease a bunch and try to initiate contact several times, she just wasn't very receptive. Conversation topics didn't really go anywhere that would indicate a romantic setting. Basically this is a possibility and advice regarding it would be great.

3. She's kind of nerdy and doesn't drink a ton and thinks I party alot more than her and is turned off by that.

Her being nerdy isn't an issue, she's far from shy and lots of fun to hang out with, she drinks socially just not excessively, she said she's only been hungover once and I basically gave her a "wtf really?" reaction and teased her about this. Really though I'm a social drinker myself and I don't think this difference in lifestyle would ever be an issue, but I think she might have the wrong impression.

So, I know this is very tldr and congrats if you made it this far, but I thought this girl was really cool and we had a ton in common and it bums me out a bit that it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. We can be friends but given the facts that she's really busy and still underage for a bit with no fake ID and we have few mutual friends I can't imagine we'd actually hang out much. I'm not fixated or anything, I just really thought we were clicking and was confused and let down when I was rejected. All feedback greatly appreciated, thanks.

I read a good bit of this thread up until here. I don't know what happened to that friendship you had but if you are looking to score with the girls like that who like to party it's pretty simple and saves a lot of crap.

Just be around them when they are drunk and parting, preferably a house party and flirt with them very assertively. When they're grinding on you whisper something in their ear. Do anything. Be aggressive. If you've hung out with her a couple times before and she knows who you are getting real aggressive like playfully slapping her butt or talking about sex after she's had a few drinks is all it takes. Had that happen with one of my girlfriends friends at a party.

Next time don't even take more than one day to get their number. Just be assertive in the middle of a conversation or near the end and pull out your cell phone and say, "let me get your number", "whats your number." I've done this a ton with girls I had just met minutes ago and we went on to have dates and meet up. Even you don't make solid plans getting the number quick is important. You can just call them in a couple days and make the plans then. If you are on a college campus man go to work on as many girls as you can. It will never be as easy as college later. I'd go to as many party's as possible.

It's really easy on campus. Man those were the days...You have an automatic conversation topic with any girl on campus bc you both are students. You can even approach random hot girls sitting alone in between classes. Just be friendly and confident. As you walk by them("sure is cold out") or as you walk past where they're sitting just be friendly. Smoking was a great icebreaker and probably the best because you can just ask "got a light" but it doesn't have to be the only icebreaker.

As for girl 2 (much shorter and simpler plz don't hate me!)

This girl I have known as friends for several months. We have several mutual friends, especially of note is that one of my good female friends is basically best friends with her. We've hung out probably 5-6 times or so throughout the semester in group settings, had a few one on one convos. She's in law school (I'm an undergrad) and my impression is that she's a nice girl maybe with a bit of a wild side, pretty cute (about on par with girl 1), but I never saw us as anything other than friends. The past 2 times I saw her were both at bars, both times she seemed fairly excited to see me, hugged me, actually squeezed my cheeks last time lol, still I didn't read anything other than the fact that she was drunk (she's a lightweight and I needle her about this alot). We didn't talk for long either time although we've had longer convos int he past.

After this last time I went home to hang out with a friend of mine. I told her I bumped into this girl and joked about how she was really drunk, and then unexpectedly he told me "You know, (girl) told me she thinks you're cute. I think you should ask her out." I don't have her number but given all our mutual friends I'm sure we will run into each other pretty soon, although probably not until after winter break. My plan as of now is to wait until I see her out (when she's a bit less drunk than these last 2 times), ask if she has a BF (I just learned that she doesn't, maybe this is why I always just thought of us as friends and didn't read anything haha), and assuming that she does say no remark that I didn't know that, and then ask her out to dinner. Is this a good plan? If not, what would you do?

[I am responding to stinger's first post. It is very long so I did not want to quote it.]

Not patting myself on the back, but I predicted a LJBF was coming after your conduct on the first date. You acted very passively, rarely took any initiative and played off of her nearly the entire time. You half-assed every attempt at anything physical and hedged every time you did something. It seems like you acted very tentatively, almost scared of the results. It's akin to you saying "well like uhh if you want maybe we could ummm kiss but just kidding! unless you want to then ok!" with your behavior. The whole just putting your arm around her and doing/saying nothing else when getting a neutral reaction. She was stuck in the middle of a decision right then and there, thus the neutral reaction, and you gave her no reason to go one way or the other.

Your decision to "make it a quick one" on the first date interested me. Why did you do this? Did you have motive behind it? Were you intimidated at the possibility that something physical would happen? I'm not saying you had to have sex with her, not at all, but at least kiss her a little more and build that physical rapport and connection while you have the opportunity. The reason I ask all those questions is your underlying motives are important to determining how you staged your behavior.

If you are going to go for a kiss later in the night, it's important (usually) that you build up some sort of comfort level with touching earlier in the evening. Dancing without touching? That had to be awkward as hell.

LJBF is far from a kiss of death, but without any type of prior touching or cuddling or contact, there's really no way to break through it there. Then you put the final nails in the coffin with your behavior the following days. You clearly were at a loss, came back to her subserviently and then went all "please be my friend" with her. That last text exchange, as you recognized, was particularly damaging.

I doubt this situation can be salvaged, but your best choice is the standard advice: distance, pursue other women, make sure she finds out, give it time, reevaluate then. If you need any of these topics to be expounded on, check the last 3-5 pages of the thread (assuming 50 PPP).

As to your "reasons" of her not liking you:

1. This one is incorrect or she would have never initiated anything with you the first date. Physical attraction is easy (edit: easy is not the right word. easier than women is a better way to put it) to overcome for men unless you are grossly ugly or repulsing to her. Obviously you are not.

2. Bingo

3. Unlikely

"I don't get hangovers" or "I've only been hungover once or twice" is a standard bull**** line from a girl who either wants to appear on one of the two extremes: tough guy drinker or someone who doesn't touch alcohol. I used to believe this until I heard it from the 25th girl that told it to me.

I like to imagine what a girl would tell her friends in evaluating her view of me/someone else. My guess in your situation would be, "He's cute and really sweet, but a little awkward and dorky. He's a great friend and really nice guy though!"

With apologies to CCuster, this is an awful plan. First of all, why are you asking if she has BF? That's so... weird, especially since you already know she doesn't. That's just... awkward. I'm not even sure what you intend to accomplish with that. You should take the approach that you don't care if she has a BF or not. It will help your framing.

Don't do the whole formal ask out to dinner thing. It's boring, old and women don't respond well to it. Just strike up conversation with her, show her how awesome you are and try to isolate her one-on-one in conversation. Execute a venue change if possible. If not, use the conversation to build towards some sort of event you can do together, preferably something where you will get to engage in conversation (NOT a movie at the movie theater... a DVD at your house? mmm maybe). I think the best option is "oh my gosh have you heard of bar X and what they do on night Y? It's so awesome. You haven't heard of it? You HAVE to check it out. Tell you what, I was gunna go Thursday, why don't you come with me?"

boom.

failing all that, just engage her in awesome conversation and blitz her # out of her by the end of the night. be sure to frame it casually and dont get all formal and datey on her. That's where you'll start to come across as awkward and a "super nice guy!"

Okay.

Playing university hockey this year as a 4th year rookie. No, I won't be going pro, it's probably the equivalent of playing Jr. B up here or D3 in the States (nominally no DII exists). It's a good time and a way to keep playing competitively before I enter the real world.

Anyways, gonna give the full context as much as I can, tl;dr perhaps applicable but I'll try to keep it concise:

We have our rookie kegger a few weeks ago at one of the vet's houses. Rooks drink a hell of a whole lot from 6pm - 9pm before the ladies come over. Various initiation activites, road hockey, kegstands, etc. Anyways, I'm feeling good but not even close to being sloppy. Ladies show up around 9-9:30. One girl particularly catches my eye. Talked to her a few times over the course of the night, and she'd playfully brush me off with witty remarks and insults, so I'd move on but then every so often run into her again.

One of the initiation activities involved getting girls to write their numbers on our chest w/ marker. Had to get x amount of numbers before y time or else you'd funnel. Pretty juvenile but whatever. Anyways, said girl wouldn't sign my chest for the longest time. When it got closer to the end of the night, she was sitting by herself on a couch waiting for her friend before they left. I told her that I didn't think she'd written her number on me yet and she should probably get on that before it was too late. She took my marker and wrote on my back (she wrote 911 ldo, found that out next morning). I said I'm pretty sure she wrote a fake number and asked her to put her real number into my phone. She asked "why should I do that?" At that moment, one of my really drunk teammates tried to give her a hug goodnight but ended up falling on her and accidentally copped a few feels. Pretty funny, actually. She's a little weirded out but laughing, so I leaned in after he got off of her and said softly "because I'm not him." So she then took the phone and put her real number in. Headed out with her friend shortly after that and I got ready to pass out. That was Friday night.

Waited until Monday to text her again. Asked if she wanted to meet up sometime between classes for coffee, she said yes and we ended up grabbing coffee that day. Pretty short talk, about half an hour to 40 minutes probably, but I made her laugh quite a bit; at the start, I told her I was sorry for not getting a hold of her earlier but I called the number she wrote on my back and the person on the other end kept asking me if it was an emergency, and she lol'd quite heartily at that. So coffee's winding up and before we left, I said I'd love to take her out to dinner and she said yes. We talked a bit more through Facebook and I set a date for about a week after coffee.

I had some time off later on during the week, a few days before our dinner date, and I kinda randomly texted her one night asking if she was down for drinks. She replied yes immediately and we ended up heading over to a local pub for a couple hours. I thought we had really good chemistry and seemed to click really well. Walked her back to her place and don't know if I really froze per se, but wasn't too sure if it was enough of a sealed deal to kiss her goodnight. Didn't end up trying anything crazy because I knew we had dinner coming up so I got a goodnight hug and left. This was Thursday night.

Dinner rolls around on a Tuesday night and I take her out to a local restaurant in the campus neighbourhood. Kinda semi-casual place with top quality entrees but very reasonable prices, and certainly not too fancy. Dinner reservations were for quarter to 7 and the meal was excellent. She looked fantastic fwiw, as if she really made an effort to put herself together for the night. Now this is where things start to go somewhat sour. After a near-perfect night, she excuses herself to the bathroom and I pick up the bill, put it on my credit card. She comes back and when she sees me signing for the bill, she said she was hoping I wouldn't pay myself. I told her it wasn't a big deal and that I was happy she came out tonight. So smiles all around but then I ask "what do you want to do now?" I hate myself so much for this...I honestly don't know what I should be saying here and I honestly didn't know what I was expecting. It's only 8:30 at the time btw. She says she doesn't know, and a bit of an elongated, awkward pause ensues. I'm frozen and I'm desperately trying to think of something to say. I suggest a movie, to which she's somewhat responsive, but she starts to wonder aloud if she'll be able to stay awake through an entire movie. I'm very calm but I'm screaming inside. Finally I just suggest that I take her home for the night.

We get to her place and I walk her to the door, more awkward pauses and she seems remarkably timid and uncomfortable, which was the first time she'd been that way around me. Even during dinner, things were way more comfortable and laid back but now she's going into a shell. Again, I decided to not do anything stupid or risky, especially in lieu of the recent vibe I'm getting. She says thank you for dinner and I said thank you for joining me, there's a hug and that's that. I'm absolutely livid with myself as I head back to my car and drive home.

Not 3 hours later do I get a Facebook message from her. She says she's sorry if she lead me on at all but she's afraid of commitments and she doesn't want a relationship or anything like that. She goes further to say that she thinks I'm very sweet and funny and she thinks we'd make great friends. I felt like punching myself in the throat. We've barely spoken since.

This always happens to me. I made no indication whatsoever that I wanted to be friends and I took a much more direct line with this girl than most girls I'm ever interested in (if anyone remembers my absolute disaster thread in this forum from two years ago, you'll know what I mean). I only ever saw her in one-on-one situations and I thought I was very upfront about my interest without being creepy about it. Yet I still fail and end up in the friend zone. I want to brush this off as an isolated incident and move on but this has been a recurring trend since high school.

What am I doing wrong?

I don't have time for a very in depth response to this one, but it's kinda similar. You were doing awesome until it became crunch time, then you wussed out and your feelings probably (definitely) showed through your behavior. You started acting a bit passive and awkward and weren't willing to try and kiss her or escalate anything. Again, just to be clear, I am not (and will never if you guys know my beliefs) saying you have to have sex with her or ANYTHING like that, but at least try to escalate SOME sort of physical contact. You come off as all "gee golly wiz" when you get passive. It's also possible this girl is flighty or has issues and just bailed on you because of that.

I'd also like to highlight some awesome things from your post:

Bwaha that's great.

Also fantastic.

Basically you played it well until you started wussing out and acting passively. Women are looking for a man to lead, not hedge, and who is so self-confident that he just KNOWS they want to kiss him.

Karak,

Thanks for reading, I've read a lot of your posts in this thread and the EDF forum and I think they are very good. However, I think I have to fill in some blanks here as you have a few misconceptions:

"Not patting myself on the back, but I predicted a LJBF was coming after your conduct on the first date. You acted very passively, rarely took any initiative and played off of her nearly the entire time. You half-assed every attempt at anything physical and hedged every time you did something. It seems like you acted very tentatively, almost scared of the results. It's akin to you saying "well like uhh if you want maybe we could ummm kiss but just kidding! unless you want to then ok!" with your behavior. The whole just putting your arm around her and doing/saying nothing else when getting a neutral reaction. She was stuck in the middle of a decision right then and there, thus the neutral reaction, and you gave her no reason to go one way or the other."

To recap, the first date was dinner, we sat across the table, I didn't make any halfass attempts but didn't make any at all since there were no opportunities. It was effectively a blind date and my only expectation going in was to have fun. I didn't expect the conversation to go so smoothly, partially because I used to be very shy and partially because the girl whom I had last dated was pretty painfully shy which led to some awkward moments during dinner dates for sure. I realize my approach probably sucks though, any advice?

"Your decision to "make it a quick one" on the first date interested me. Why did you do this? Did you have motive behind it? Were you intimidated at the possibility that something physical would happen? I'm not saying you had to have sex with her, not at all, but at least kiss her a little more and build that physical rapport and connection while you have the opportunity. The reason I ask all those questions is your underlying motives are important to determining how you staged your behavior.

If you are going to go for a kiss later in the night, it's important (usually) that you build up some sort of comfort level with touching earlier in the evening. Dancing without touching? That had to be awkward as hell."

Honestly the situation took me by surprise. I was aware of the fact that we hadn't made physical contact during dinner so I made my mind up that I wasn't going for the kiss this time. Then when she touched my hand I changed my mind on the fly last-minute. Regardless, I probably should have went for a longer kiss but it was a pretty weird spot.

And I don't know where you got dancing without touching? I just said that there was no especially strong touching, no grinding or anything, but when we did dance it wasn't awkward. That said we didn't dance a ton as like I said the music kind of sucked and also I kind of lost track of time chatting away with the intent to dance more later but then it ended. Whoops.

"LJBF is far from a kiss of death, but without any type of prior touching or cuddling or contact, there's really no way to break through it there. Then you put the final nails in the coffin with your behavior the following days. You clearly were at a loss, came back to her subserviently and then went all "please be my friend" with her.

I doubt this situation can be salvaged, but your best choice is the standard advice: distance, pursue other women, make sure she finds out, give it time, reevaluate then. If you need any of these topics to be expounded on, check the last 3-5 pages of the thread (assuming 50 PPP)."

I mean I basically agree here, although I guess I did this because I thought the chances were low anyway and I definitely would much rather be friends than have no contact like I said. Honestly my emotions got the better of me a bit initially too, but I'm over that now. Out of curiosity how would you have played it from after the formal?

"3. Unlikely

"I don't hangovers" or "I've only been hungover once or twice" is a standard bull**** line from a girl who either wants to appear on one of the two extremes: tough guy drinker or someone who doesn't touch alcohol. I used to believe this until I heard it from the 25th girl that told it to me."

I dunno, her behavior when I hung out with her was pretty consistent with it, she had 2-3 drinks each time then stopped drinking. Cornell girls can have some weird quirks. Not saying you're absolutely wrong but I think all the evidence points to the fact that she's telling the truth. Why would she lie about this anyway?

"I like to imagine what a girl would tell her friends in evaluating her view of me/someone else. My guess in your situation would be, "He's cute and really sweet, but a little awkward and dorky. He's a great friend and really nice guy though!""

She's definitely dorkier than me. As for the awkward part, I mean in the context of two people going out having fun, it wasn't. With regards to two people going out with sexual interest, well admittedly this isn't my strong suit. The neutral reaction to the physical contact especially confused me, I've never really gotten this reaction and I did not know how to interpret it or what to do/say.

im really drunk right now, but i think the irony of karak answering stingers posts is ridiculously awesome.

stinger itmft

Thanks for the reply btw Karak.

Confidence around women is a huge issue for me. I suffered a really late start in the game because nothing happened in high school for me, period. I'm typically assertive in almost any other situation but when it comes to girls, I have a hard time convincing myself to go for the kill, for lack of a better term. I have a few friends who've suggested going after sluts for a while and building up confidence but it really goes against a lot of what I believe in.

To use a sports analogy, it's almost like I'm working towards putting together a complete game but I can't get over the final hump. Two years ago, there's no way I would've started out that strongly, wouldn't even get to that point. Now, I'm having a hard time closing. Anyone else had to overcome something like this before?

To confirm my first paragraph you quoted, I got a bit ADD there and addressed two separate dates with one thought. Thus your confusion, but I think you figured out what I was trying to say.

How would I play it after the formal? Hm. The problem with the formal is the way you played it the night before IMO. It's like asking me a turn line after you got in a bad spot with a misplay on the flop. So it's a tough question. I'd say I would have tried to set something to do AFTER the formal DURING conversation at the formal. This way you have an established plan after the evening, rather than the aimless awkwardness you encountered.

The evening before I would have tried to escalate things a little more. Again, I don't mean in a sexual sense, but just touching and intimacy wise. The problem with these stories is I only get YOUR perspective. It's possible you were coming off awkward to her in conversation and didn't realize it. I do this sometimes too (not saying you DID do it, but it could show us why she got all neutraly on you).

Yes, me. I never lacked general self-confidence, but I used to be pretty terrible with women. It's only recently I've started to figure it out a bit, and even then I'm still learning. I enjoy responding to posts here because it presents me with real life scenarios, but also gives me the time to think through a course of action. This way if I encounter a similar scenario IRL, I'll have already thought it through and decided what to do.

I get the impression with this post that stinger is some sort of poker pro. It bothers turnupthesun very much that I don't know any pros names and don't care to, haha.

i think turnupthesun's dick exploded in excitement when he saw stinger entered the thread

also stinger, a quick q. do your friends/classmates/girls you are around know of your 4m win?

Like I said we have been friends for a semester basically. We have only hung out in group settings. We have gotten along pretty well but aside from her drunk initiating contact nothing suggesting more than friendship - that is, until our mutual friend told me that she said I'm cute. To me, asking the BF question seems like a pretty natural way to transition the conversation away from just friends to something more. I mean I don't make a habit of asking questions that I know the answer to, but it's certainly better than "so I just found out that you don't have a boyfriend..." What makes you think it's awkward?

As for your suggestions, the bars idea doesn't work, there are like 5 bars in Ithaca that anyone goes to, and when we've hung out it's generally at one of them. Also she would likely interpret this is as a group setting too given the history and the fact that we pretty much always hang out with the same group of mutual friends. DVD idea works better, I mean I guess I could see this working, but I could also see her thinking "wtf that came out of the blue". That said, if she actually does have interest she would probably accept.

Point taken with the formal/datey thing, although the only alternatives I see are the DVD option or just waiting for her to initiate contact again when drunk (I think she's too shy to do this sober) and then making a move, meh? I can do fine in conversation but my problem is transitioning it to a sexual level. Any help there would be great.

Thanks a lot for responding to these so quick btw, although so much for me studying all this time...

Normally I'd totally agree with regards to setting something up after the formal. Unfortunately she had to go to bed early because she was doing her final presentation the next day at like 11am.

You're going to have to trust me here, but I'm very confident I didn't come off awkwardly in conversation at all. Admittedly, there are many many other times when I do when pursuing girls, but it just really wasn't with her why is why I'm bummed about it in the first place. That said, I did not attempt to escalate things aside from putting my arm around her. How would you go about doing this?