I'm not saying it's anyone's goal. Just saying that ppl in general often become emotional and not objective when disagreeing w others. I appreciate when that's not the case.

You can take great care of your body and choose comfort over style. This is very common.

Shame is not a motivator for change, people who are overeating, alcoholics etc are often doing it because of the general shame they feel. To make the change they need to overcome that shame and then do something different with they´re life. Don´t think that bringing people down for being overweight has any benefits when it comes to progression.
People who are fat already know this, no point in kicking them when they´re down. Tough love might be a better way to motivate imo.

I'm with you. And while I am seriously not trying to force a desired result in my head, which I clearly have in this situation, it gets hard when the eye contact thing continues. I'll see more into it at work the next few times I see her, and whether she does it or not, I will do nothing as recommended not only by you, but a female friend I seeked advice to. It sounds correct in every phase, even if I am trying to be that optimist.

I really should go back to not caring whether I am with someone or not, especially since I have a solo Vegas trip coming up and it will make it a lot better if I don't have to answer to someone during it.

They are the exact same thing you are just defending the comfort dressing person because you fall into that category.

There are countless small things both men and women do where comfort vs looking ones best conflict. The shoe example was just one I picked because it happened recently. I could make have picked one of 20-30 other situations where you have comfort vs looking good.

Another one that came up recently is the degrees to which women can do things to make their breasts look better. There are various degrees of effort and I'm not saying you a girl needs to do them all but if she is also at the zero effort then that is going to have a negative impact on the relationship.

Even something as innocuous as how you dress around each other when in private or when going to bed has an impact on how long term relationships progress.

This has been a pretty AIDSy conversation but actually fairly useful for me. As I've been making these posts and reflecting on this I realize I've fallen into the slippery slope myself and that I need to return to my more disciplined self.

I don't mean this in a bad way, but you sound a bit inexperienced with women. You don't have to go into details if you don't want, but am I right?

The reason Mittens left the thread was because I tried to touch his tralala.

It depends on the person. For some people shame does make them shut down and it is even worse but people who react that way are the type of people who are at a huge disadvantage in life anyway. For people who are going capable shame is a great motivator. It comes down to are you a Eeyore who faces adversary with a woe is me, my life sucks attitude and give up or the type of person who **** my life does suck and it sucks because of X, Y and Z and this is how I fix X,Y, and Z plus I'm going to do W and U as well so that my life not only doesn't suck but is awesome.

Having a sunny deposition is great but using the term optimist to judge how to evaluate probability is asking for a lot of pain. Being an optimist here is accepting the reality presented but also realizing that is no big deal

Shame is the most direct route to feeling horrible and might be unbearable enough that you change something, but I would not agree it is the best motivator or even a good one to keep going. How many successful/happy/healthy people name shame as their big driver rather than pride or wellbeing or the rush of victory?


Edit, clarification.

Depends on the context of the shame. If the person is already in a ****ty spot and feels ashamed of it then wanting to escape that is not the greatest motivator. However being brought to shame unless you do/change XYZ or if you let yourself slip is a great motivator. If a person has been in some ****ty position for a while they would feel ashamed of it, but they would be used to that state so avoiding feeling bad wouldn't be enough of motivation.

So it comes down to whether you are trying to avoid shame or escape it.

Great point my friend, great point. In this case I believe obviously that the chunkers/fatasses/Twinkie-lovers are simply trying to escape shame as I am sure they have been subjected to it their entire lives

Forgot to respond to this, so I'll do it.

You probably can. You are already genetically better to beat me. I'm not much of an athlete, but I am in shape. I may even have a lower body fat percentage than you right now. The point was never about athleticism, and I'm not sure why you thought it is. Yeah, you are gonna kick my ass in an athletic competition, but it doesn't prove anything. The point is, I'm still better off than at least 90% of the population because I exercise, eat right, and am not overweight.

But even if you look at an elite athlete, they not only have great genetics, they train hard. You can lose weight having poor genetics and putting in just a fraction of the effort what they'd put in on a daily basis. It's very hard, if not impossible to be an elite athlete without having proper genetics.

And the time excuse is the worst. You can go to McDonalds and still lose weight. You can literally eat the exact same way you do everyday and just change portions. It just takes a little education and determination to lose weight.


For me to beat you in an athletic competition, I might have to train for 3 or 4 hours a day, and I probably would still lose. To not be a fatass, all it takes is eating correctly; you can get away with not even exercising.

DD: Yeah I think that's accurate. I see shame as an identifier of what you'll get the most out of fixing, but any longer than that and it just drags me down.

Kevin O'Leary is the first that comes to mind. He was a loser hippy going no where in life until someone tried to shame him. You saw the way he talks about that incident even though it was likely 30+ years ago with so much anger still. Steve Jobs admits that NeXT was a I'm going to show you and make you pay response to Apple's management turning on him. I also think it is a lot more common but that people when telling their how they got successful story re-write history.

Among people who are not famous enough to have biographies but that I know personally quite a few and I would consider myself among those people. My parents had no sense of proper nutrition and they think a 3500+ calorie diet is proper for a 12 year old so I was a chubby kid that got picked on in grades kindergarten to 5. Being picked on was a big factor in changing things. By the time I was in grade 9 I was on the track team, cross country team, football team, and played both ball hockey and ice hockey.

When someone is legitimately critical of you it feels bad. There is only two ways to deal with that -- you either say **** it I don't care and continue down the same path or you admit that they are right and you are flawed and you not only fix the item they are being critical of but you dominate it so that no one can be critical of you.

You know why that study sucks? Because society is soft. Because bullying is somehow now some new issue just because the media gives it attention. Because people are narcissistic on a whole new level. Because everyone gets a trophy, and everyone is a winner.

Look up "fat shaming" on Google and see the types of articles. Mostly people saying how fat shaming is wrong, and it's not the person's fault that they are fat. No, it is their fault. It's because they are too lazy and won't take accountability for their actions. Society hates taking accountability. It's not your fault. It's someone else's.

"It's not your fault. That's just the way your body is!" No, it's called science, dumbass. It's called the LAWS of thermodynamics. And then you Google it relating to weight loss, and you'll find hilarious articles, like this one. Mostly fat people trying to justify why the article is right.

http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2...ience-says-no/

Plenty people try arguing that the laws aren't perfect or something to that extent. No, the laws are correct. Less calories in than what you are burning will cause you to lose weight. Again, people using excuses to justify that it's ok to be fat. The reason weight loss is complicated is because of your metabolism. It isn't static, it isn't constant. How many calories you burn a day is changing all the time. So it can be a little difficult to calculate. Nonetheless, the laws of thermodynamics apply.


**** you, you lazy ass, PC, nanny state, not your fault, unaccountable society. SHUT UP. GET BIG. TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY.

Fat shaming would work quite well if it became the norm. All of society are just fat apologists.

GusJohnsonGOAT *heart

Henry, the 40 year old woman expert (and I assume unmarried and childless) has no empathy for mothers who work 40hrs+ in five days, shuttle the kids to school/care before and after work, do the womanly chores around the house, feed the kids, entertain them, put them to sleep, take care of them when they're sick, clean up their messes, etc etc etc.

The lazy bitch needs to get on a treadmill, do yoga for optimal sex life, and lift weights.

Your perception of life is ridiculous and you do not relate to 90+% of people.


Re: Fat shaming. I started eating a lot of sweets in 9th grade, wasn't in a growth spurt, had surgery, and didn't go out for sports that year. I got chubby. The ridicule from classmates made me stop eating sweets and eating salads for lunch until I was a normal weight. Sample size 1, but shame worked for me.

GOAT doing work. I ain't even fat and that post motivated me.

LT22,

My GF owns a business and works 90-110h+ weeks. Plus has the time to help homeless cats.

In the past I've worked do hard that I've fallen asleep when I stopped to get food while driving. In university I worked part-time and more than 3x the course load

There are no excuses.

My maid is a 35-year old woman with 1 kid. She easily works 40+ hours per week. Her husband has been locked up in a foreign country for 6+ months now, but she still manages to go to the gym and do her workout routine. She wants to look good for her man once he returns.

We are not saying there aren't any exceptions, only that they are extremely rare.

Dating somebody that works 90+ hrs/week sounds sub optimal.

Quite the opposite.

Competitor / friend deal with a situation by saying "I ran out of time" which doesn't mean she actually ran out of time just that end of day came along and it was time to go home so she did. That is a loser mentality.

My GF's response to the same situation is to just stay at work until 11pm or 1am or all night. That is a winner mentality.

I value that a lot. It does cause some issues like her first birthday we had plans to go see a DJ in Montreal and she had to work so I had to dive up to deal with the reservations and then drive back and we don't have as much of a social life as I am used to but that is negligible compared to having the right state of mind -- if you commit to something you do whatever it takes to get it done with no excuses. Once a business gets to a certain point the time commitments will be less but the right attitude will still be there. There is no way I would ever be ok with being in a relationship with someone who doesn't have that attitude.

This is the type of person you need if you want to make a relationship work and not just be dead inside hating each other at the ten year mark.

Also wanted to say the-fryke is 100% right. I can be fearful to approach women, and I know I'd get laid a lot more if I just did. It usually takes more than just dressing right and being in shape. Yeah, I've gotten laid and had women approach me because of it, but I realize that 99% of the time you still have to approach and put in the work. It's just societal norms. I could become rich and lead a more interesting life overnight, and I still know that I'd have to have decent social skills and not be afraid to approach.


****. I think I might have motivated myself by that post. I'm trying to do the opposite and bulk up, and if I'm not making my caloric goals, it's almost certainly because of an excuse or poor planning.

Reminder: We only live once. Time should be spent growing and nurturing relationships with friends, family, and significant others if applicable.

A lot of business owners always claim the business will run itself in the future, but in reality they're too controlling to let go and/or the business will never run itself.

According to you, working out is 100% necessary for all people because they need to be optimal for looking good. Working 90+ hrs is not optimal for looking good. Presumably that is a little stressful and is likely causing small wrinkles underneath GF's eyes. OH THE HORROR

A lot of people have the attitude of "let's get **** done," but it doesn't mean selling out your entire life to work.

1. I figured you would name O'Leary because of that ice cream anecdote and considered pre-empting you. With Steve Jobs that's two, that's my point -- some kind of trauma haunting you forever isn't the mark of a well-adjusted person, and I would submit that being well-adjusted is more common among successful people. There will be some rate of broken people's brokenness pushing them to make it big but I don't think that's normal -- for every one of those guys there like 25,000 people who shut it out, and that being the case, it cannot be said that shame is a great motivator.

2. The difference I'm talking about is the same difference between doing ok at work to avoid the shame of unemployment, and actually wanting to do a great job. Shame gets you as far as not wanting to get fired; pride gets you to the next level.