From the site's main page:

I don't think I could get anywhere near the 1st tier imo. Also, I have no intentions of going into biglaw. I wanna become a public defender and do criminal defense. Plus I would like to stay in the area as well.

Meh. Re: thirdtierreality guy...

I'm sure he is right to a certain extent, but is taking it way too far. Anyone w/a law degree can make a bunch of money being a successful lawyer. It might just be a harder route and take a bit longer to get going.

Also, debt is a huge issue. I understand that starting out $90k in debt with a 3rd tier law degree and middling grades is not good....at all....but if you are debt free and well supported, you can get out and talk to lawyers, work for free for a while, and just be patient. Eventually you will get a job or learn enough to go do your own thing. If you are good at what you do, your grades/school won't matter one iota past your first job.

I guess a lot of people say this...but I plan on being really really really good.

Yeah I mean the key part is the debt free part. Sure I would consider going to a newly accredited school if it didn't cost me anything (including cost of living) because I don't lose anything except 3 years of my time.

However a big point of the web site, and what I was trying to tell Case Closed is that there's a huge debt burden, with much less chance to pay it back in the immediate future if you go to anything outside of tier 2. Especially in this economy, and no one knows how things are going to look in 3 years.

Like POKEROMGLOL said, going to a third tier school makes it more difficult, but not impossible. Do well in school, make connections, make law review, etc and you should be fine, and if you're not, I doubt it has much to do with the name of your institution.

People who expect $100k offers to be forced on them after graduating in the middle of their class from ttt with no distinctions or anything are not victims. They're fools.

Debt free is awesome. Every lawyer I've talked to says the first job is the only one that cares about your school-- after that they care about your performance.

I don't even know what the fuss is all about. Of course paying $100k for a law degree from a garbage school is a bad idea if you don't do well, make connections, set yourself apart, etc. Anyone (and I mean anyone) can graduate from law school. Not everyone is worthy of a good job (or, frankly, any job).

I got into T1 schools but I received a full tuition scholarship to a T2 school. I didn't even consider going to any other school. Coming out of law school without any debt is ridiculously awesome. Plus, the competition was weaker, so I owened them and got a job that I would have received if I went to a T1 school and got all that debt.

I'd take da monies.

My father, who is a partner at a large law firm in the city here, told me that they take this into account so some degree when looking at resumes/hiring people. In his opinion the top 10% at any school would do very well at any another school. So top 10% at t4 would be top 25% for sure at a top 25. And the bottom 1/3 or whatever are not dumb kids but lazy ones who don't care, and that's the same at all schools. It's the middle class rankings where the difference is. At t1 it's because you're lazier. At t4 it's because you peaked.

Again that's for big-ish law, probably different for smaller firms and different markets.

I have no intentions of buying a fancy car out of law school or anything remotely close to that nature. I live on a waiters wage at 25 hours a week right now and I am extremely pleased with my standard of living. I would like to be moving in the right direction, but I don't have expectations of people throwing gold plated jewelry at me when I graduate. If jobs are attainable in the field I seek that pay a living wage that can help me pay off the debt then I'll be more than happy. I would love to be debt free but it is not gonna happen. I certainly could just be an uninformed newb but I think we have different goals for law school?

The problem is that it's really hard to tell where you're gonna be grade wise until it happens. Law school is definitely the place where people who were used to getting As in college get their first C, at least if you go to a school that still curves around a B- first year (ie TTT schools). You get double hit because your gpa will be worse than top school people and you come from a worse school.

The nature of law students is that almost everyone thinks they are smarter than everyone else. And that they will be at the top of their class. Obviously 90% of people end up being wrong. Having come from a top tier undergrad and a very competitive high school I can tell you that the competition/smartness level even at my TTT was just as hard as it was in undergrad. I just think the distinction between people at top 20s and often at TTTs in smartness is VERY small, there's just a very small gap, definitely compared to undergrads. Think about all the filtering that happens before someone ends up in law school. Also there are A LOT of people who did well at good undergrads and just can't do the LSAT, so they end up at TTTs and do well. You're always going to have to compete with those people (this is along the lines with the points made by manupod's father).

Everything is just such a mess right now. No one knows if it'll get better and when. Law school costs so much that I have serious doubts if it pays for itself, at least in the short run. It's hard to over emphasize that LOTS of people with good grades, who networked etc, even from top schools cannot find a law job right now.

Civil Procedure? Where should I start? Should I read the cases?

We have the classic Paper Chase professor for contracts this semester. Easily one of the funniest and most brilliant teachers I've ever had. He's hilarious. He's also savagely brutal to students who give wrong answers (and in his class every answer is wrong), but most people don't get that he means no harm and is just joking. I think the class is awesome and like the challenges he presents.

He told one person they should consider truck driving school. Later in the class someone gave an answer, and he stared at them for a few seconds then started making truck noises and pretended to drive around the room.

He also asked everyone with a Poli Sci degree to raise their hand today. Then he explained for 2 minutes why their degree was worthless. Most of them were not amused, but I was. It was obvious, at least to me, that he was just stereotyping/making jokes. Him laughing/smiling should be a tipoff, but a lot of people came out of that class today hating him.

It's worth noting he went after me for 10 minutes today, but I think that's because a few sentences in he realized I was playing along with him (and thus had thick skin), so he had some fun with it.

Sounds like fun. I wish all my teachers were like this.

It's amazing how many people just don't get the kind of humor Karak is talking about.

Ditto. My school is all Legally Blonde.

And those graduating without debt are making me cry.

Yeah, everyone was ranting about him today, save a few of us. I noticed most of us who like him are naturally sarcastic people.

He asked me a question (which was ****ing impossible and no one knew the answer), and I blanked. He says: "Mr. Karak, would you like to phone a friend? Actually, you look like you probably don't have any friends, do you?"
I quickly retort: "No one will ever talk to me."
Him: "Not surprising."

Girl in front of me was like OMG HE WAS SO MEAN TO YOU. No he wasn't. He was ****ing with me, and it was hilarious.

People are also upset that he doesn't spoonfeed them BLL. He addresses this constantly and tries to make it clear he's simply trying to teach legal reasoning, that is that knowing the BLL isn't enough. It's more important to apply it to both sides of the case, make both arguments and the conclusion (on an exam) isn't necessarily important. People just don't seem to get that. They see a problem on an exam, find a rule, say the rule says this so the result must be this and that's it. They make no attempt to make any other type of argument. He, and he is the first prof who has overtly done this, is trying to teach people how to succeed on law exams and everyone just takes it as him "not wanting to teach."

They just want him to get up there, tell them the BLL and move on to the next subject. He asks difficult hypotheticals and will tell you you are wrong no matter what answer you give. Some of my classmates don't realize he's trying to provoke them to tell him he's wrong and explain why.

You're just warped, he sounds like a prick.

Every grade for 1Ls was posted except for my section's Civil Procedure grade. AFSJADSFH

I did get an A- in legal writing though. manupod take note

lololol manupod is going to rejoice if I get drilled with a C+ or something ridiculous in civil procedure

No, he's right. My contracts prof from last semester was the same way and I loved him.

I'm going to rejoice if I can get one damn grade by the time you stop ****ing bitching about not having all of yours.

All grades were due by the 8th, however I still don't have my interviewing, negotiating, and counseling grade. We got slowned.

well just got my 1st sem grades !

WOW..i swore i failed civ pro..was just about to cry when i left the final somehow i got a B+ (curve is a c/c+)

im afraid to ask my teacher to see the test incase she just made a mistake lol

anyone else get surprised?

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Civ Pro, Con Law, Property this semester... anyone have tips on supplements, etc?

Contracts: Chirelstein? (i dunno just taking the course now but everyone recommends it)

Civ Pro: Glannon EE (+1000 seriously it's a must have)... acing civ pro was ok but i didnt find it all that useful.

Property: Depends. If you have the Dukeminier casebook absolutely get the outline authored by Krier (one of the co-authors of the Dukeminier casebook).