People seem to really groove on stupidity unfortunately. Maybe they feel doing stupid stuff is part of what makes them the spiritual elite.

The people who claim to believe in god but actually act like it is much smaller still.

Number one reason people go to church is for the people, supposedly.

A problem with claiming to believe in god is that it is the easiest way to relieve yourself of all thinking and the responsibility attendant to it.

Killing family members is a "minor custom"?

I seem to recall there being some commandment or amendment or addenum or something about that, but I'm just a non-believer and therefore an immoral know-nothing, so what do I know ...

i never said they didn't read the bible. i said they didn't do it every day. he added the "never." there are plenty of believers who are not devout in the sense that they are frequently reading scriptures or whatever. to me the only limtus test necessary for whether someone believes in a god is whether they pray to that god b/c i don't think anyone prays to an entity unless they believe it exists.



when did i say not killing people was a minor custom? i was talking about the style of dress being a minor custom and saying that there are many customs like this in religions that people ignore. idk if the last part is a shot at me or not, but i'm not religious

It was your writing not mine.

I was not taking a shot at you.

For Christians, once you're saved, you're golden. Doesn't matter if you don't go to church, don't read the Bible, you can even have some gay sex every now and then; you're soul still belongs to Jesus and that's good enough to get you into Heaven, and isn't that what Christianity's really all about?

disclaimer: IDK if that's actually what's in the Bible, since I've never actually read it. It's how I was raised, and it's what most Christians I know believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-BzQtKNkjI

But would you also attend regular weekly meetings about pancakes and spend time every day reading a very long, boring book about pancakes, even knowing that doing these things will have no effect on whether or not you will actually get pancakes?

I pray to God but unfortunately I don't think I really truely believe, it's just comforting in times of strife.

I remember a really charismatic Priest we had at our school who once handed around a collection plate at school for Africa. Obviously nobody put much in (we were 16-18 fwiw). Then he made everyone who said they were Christian stand up and asked us if we had put all our money in the collection plate. He asked my why I hadn't and I said because I wanted money for chocolate at lunch, he accused me of being selfish and that I couldn't be a true Christian if this was my attitude. Another girl said that she felt that giving to charity wasn't an important part of Christianity. He replied that if you ever put yourself beyond the starving Africans and the people in poverty you are not a practicing Christian. That was the moment I realized people don't go out of their way to practice Christianity and just pretend to.

Ever heard the saying "There's no atheist in fox holes?" I think that kind of proves that people will pray to anything when fearing for their life. Its kind of a selfish thing to think about, but humans are scared to die, and the belief that after death there is something is very calming. People need to know that you just don't keel over and that's it.

So I really don't agree with people praying to a God being the definitive action of believing in a God.

You had posted this before I posted what I posted above, kind of proves my point I was trying to get across with praying.

When I was about 18 I started to pray to God to protect my family and never once mentioned myself in my prayers. Then I realized that that was me being selfish because I wanted my family to be healthy and be ok because that was good for me. Then I prayed for people who were starving to death and were in dire situations. Then I realized that I could spend my time helping them and donating money. When I didn't I found out I was a ****.

Wow, this is a very striking story.

I remember having very similar ideas to this priest when I was younger. It was one of the first roads of thought that let me away from religion. When I began to realize that most people not only didn't give 100% of themselves (to the thing that is giving them eternal salvation!!!!!) but they often didn't even put forth any effort to understand or obey God I became very disillusioned. At the same time they love to claim God as an impetus for all their actions and ideas--of course this is obviously not true because they're putting no effort into knowing God, but so many have the audacity to claim this obvious logical contradiction! This is probably one of the key experiences in my life that has led me to generally dislike people.

Yes and this is no small problem. Children who are indoctrinated to believe that right and wrong can be learned from a single document are necessarily given the idea that we, as human beings capable of reason, are not capable of determining right from wrong. This can lead to philosophies and acts many years down the road that are often disastrous in scale.

I have seen this attitude and behavior in Christians a lot. They quite often use their faith as an excuse to be worse people. Their religion functions for them as a moral, behavioral, and intellectual get out of jail free card.

yeah i've heard of it. it's not true


edit: there is an organization for atheist soldiers:atheists in foxholes

I think a lot of people can relate to this. It's such a ******ed way to act and I think I've been fortunate in that all the Priests/members of the Church I've come across have been of the belief that if you do good things then it's God working through you. They have mostly utilized that aspect of their beliefs to try and instill a good moral compass based on actions first belief system second.

Also, there are a lot of Christians and normal people who work so so hard to get a good degree and then work hard in an ultimately meaningless job to make money for themselves. Yet they spend so little time and money on this amazing spiritual connection that is apparently the driving force in their life.

Landonfan,

I don't know why you're splitting hairs - I thought I was being very clear.

If I thought there was really a Christian God and therefore heaven... Do you think I'd bother with ****ing around for 100 years, knowing I am risking ETERNAL life in heaven?


Bottom line is, you haven't read the Bible. You don't know Christian God. End of story. What you know is some OPINION of a large group of people that call themselves Christians. You don't know that they might all be wrong.. How could you know? YOU HAVE NO IDEA. You never read the Bible.

I am not hating on you or putting you down - I am just stating facts here. If a large majority started believing in Santa Clause tomorrow, a lot of people would start believing in Santa Clause... As long as certain criteria of every cult is maintained, people are willing to blindly believe.

If you educate yourself on how cults operate - you'll realize you are part of one and you don't even know it. Blind belief is the direct result of a cult.

That is: promise what cannot be verified (heaven). Say our promise is the only true promise. Say if you don't believe our promise blindly, you are bad.

That's the basic formula of every cult, it's a bit more elaborate and far more subtle. Then you tempt people to join your cult with candy, or building a school (that propagates blind belief) or give poor people food while talking about Christ and soon enough, like Pavlov's dog, the humans start salivating for no reason other than a bell being rung(talks of Jesus Christ). So it must be higher power aka god aka I believe in God - how else do you explain these positive feelings! How else do you explain that I get saliva from a bell ringing!

Um... it's just conditioned stimulus... If you get 100 people together and dance around happily while someone talks of God in a soothing voice - you'll pretty soon associate good feelings with God. Then you'll rationalize, due to ignorance(inability to explain what really happened), that your SPONTANEOUS (RIIIITE) good feelings when God is mentioned, must be PROOF that God exists!!!


That's the gist of every organized religion and of every God that comes with "you must do X, Y and Z" strings attached.



This is not to say that cults are necessarily bad... I don't believe most people will ever be able to think for themselves - it's not in their nature to do so. Most are sheep, not shepherds by definition. The trouble is that the few shepherds sooner or later die and are replaced by incompetent shepherds that drive the whole stock of sheep into deep depression. The sheep have no choice because they don't realize they're being led. Religion is the biggest shepherd up until recently.

So um... if blind belief satisfies you - if a bell rings, you feel good and you don't get curious WHY that is - this is perfectly fine. It is just dangerous when these people start worshipping the bell being rung and start violently opposing those who do not worship the bell...

In the end - human nature is stronger than the bell being rung anyway, so no matter how great the promise and how great the deception - I think people will break free, and what the OP asked about - why people believe in God and yet give blowjobs, is a good example. It is because they deep down realize the bell that makes them feel good is not real, following your heart is real - but they haven't realized this fully, and they're torn between old beliefs that make no sense and human nature that is driving them toward truth.


p.s. I realize this post is controversial, so if moderators feel that this is offensive, please edit/delete it. We all know I lack tact.

Back on topic of the original post.

These things are done because it's much easier for us to do external things that make us seem righteous. In the course of history, religious organizations have been asked to define the requirements of these external things for the people.

The true requirements of the faithful however, are internal things of the heart.

Much of what Jesus taught is centered on this theme of the external and the internal.

I was going to post the same thing. But you wrote it a lot better than I have. I felt the same way when a friend of mine was getting married. They were "shopping around" for a Catholic Church that would marry them without condemning them for living together for 3 years. They ended up finding a priest they liked. Then they ended up lying to the priest by saying by they didn't live together or have sex. So what was the point?

To be a nit, I think only Catholics eat the flesh of Christ. Protestants think its weird.

everyone should think its weird...

Wow!! That really was a bold statement. What if God does exist? Not only did you reject his existence, but you encouraged others to reject God. I at times have my doubts, but I would never tell others to follow me to hell.

Alex,

WTF are you arguing about? You asked how people can believe in God yet not be devout in their religious practices/daily actions, and I told you what I thought the answer was. I don't believe in it and I'm not defending it. Don't shoot the ****ing messenger.

I'll reiterate it just in case of any confusion:

Being a good Christian is hard, and afaik it doesn't have an effect on the eternal resting place of your soul. All that's needed to get into Heaven is admittance of sin and the acceptance of Jesus as your savior*. Whether or not it's in the Bible is irrelevant to your question, and it's not what I'm arguing. What is relevant is that a large number of people believe this, and imo is a big reason why don't act particularly Godly.

*I was raised Baptist, and that's what we believed. I really can't say how other branches of Christianity do this. All I know about religion is what I learned in 16 years at a Baptist church.

Baptists do the whole grape juice and cracker thing, too.