Again, the expectation of players now is that they spend a considerable amount of time on the game. The mods and the players that are able to devote this time chastise those that simply cannot be online all day. That's why you see a lot of signups for these high death games.

This is why I try not to complain on the forums if my games do not fill or underfill. If a player is unable to spend 1h per gameday on my game I do not want them to sign up.

I am ready to accept that this policiy will give me fewer sign-ups that I could otherwise have had.

Are you referencing an expectation beyond what UD has stated (1h per day)?

i dont think i've ever played a game where i didnt read every single post in the game thread, including the old giant mishmashes of 2012-14.

i think a basic expectation of knowing what the hell is going on is entirely reasonable in these games, even if that may lower signups.

idk, thats just my 2c

Totally agree (which is why I don’t play much any more).

I used to do the same thing. Now I don't have the time for that so I just play the quickies and the majors.

The problem is the lack of new players to replace the people that are basically aging out, and that's a discussion we've had multiple times.

Actually I want to play but I didn't want to take a spot from someone else who wanted to play, so I'm waiting a little while longer.

I think there is an implied expectation. For many at least.

I think it is perfectly fine to have that expectation, but it seems sort of obvious to me that, in this forum at least, you can't have that expectation AND fill games on a regular basis.

bigger,

I am unfamiliar with mods who specify or imply such an expectation. As with UD, he states quite the opposite.

For players implying this expectation, I feel you. I think you might be conflating something, though. Some players regularly wolf read and denigrate players in the middle of a game if they don't put in much more than the minimum.

But I think those who truly think less of a player for this are a vocal minority. In my view, most mods and players appreciate players who give it their best, even if that is simply the minimum.

That is how I feel, anyway. I appreciate when you and anyone else fills a game.

There's definitely been a steady increase in expectations over the years, and what game mods put in the OP is essentially irrelevant as far as what the players expect of each other.

I remember when the games db was created one of the guys calculated everyone's average posts per gameday, and mine was 41. Back in the day I was usually among the top posters in each game, topping out at around 50-60 posts in a day. The average number of posts per player on day 1 was probably around 20. Now you have players who complain about caps of 100 posts per day and they complain about anyone who doesn't keep up with them. MU has basically the same expectations as POG and I just got called underwhelming for a d1 where I posted 180 times in 36 hours with 0 fluff.

And guess what? All the extra posts haven't even made people play any better. Back in the day it was normal to reread the entire thread from start to finish several times throughout the game. It's amazing what you can figure out when you actually know what's happened at every point in the game instead of just spot-checking things and relying on impressions of things that happened days ago when you had less information available. I really have no desire to play in games where people just spam the thread and don't know what's going on.

+1 post restrictions.

Thread readability, signal:noise, & post count reads all implicated.

Modkill the spammers, lynch the unplayings.

The game should be a game, not a "who can be around" check.

do people still do turbos at all anymore?

would be fun to run a couple some day or weekend or whatever

miss the days when theyd fill up and run every night

View: Gabe and UD are the problem, not the solution.

I'm, sure, ok, prepared to entertain the thought, that you both want pog to have more games. But not if you aren't in control of them. And that involves pathetic, stupid attempts (via the dictates of roles or of the initiate of the game) to ensure your deemed levels of participation. I wouldn't play in a game either of you ran, or were involved in modding. Maybe others won't either unless there are excuses that they can invent for themselves - like it's a "major".

Also, gjge simultaneously combining to run AdL's game off the site. I'm sure that was really helpful.

Hey

Shameless plug

Join my bastard mash on REDACTED

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...78#post2357778

i) The player pool started to wither well before I started to host games.

ii) Other than the cases in which people try to run games in spots I have already scheduled, I do not see what did I do to contribute to the drought of games (i.e. games in which I am not in control).

It’s not like I am running a game every month, leaving no one else a chance to schedule.

iii) benneh’s game involves a very easy moderation load, and can be easily rescheduled. The Once Upon A Time vanilla+ involves a heavy moderator load, which means than rescheduling is more difficult.

For this reason, I had absolutely no regrets in asking benneh to reschedule, and I am reasonably sure he thinks my behaviour was sensible.

iii) As for the bolded, I am not quite sure what you mean.

Oh, and

The only way we can have more games, but only if there are games we control, is by running more games than we already do.

I have designed 3.5 games in 2016 (the .5 is for The Genius) and just 2 games in 2017 (the one I designed for MU should not count).
I modded (or co-modded) 7 games in 2016, and just 4 in 2017.

Opportunities for other game mods are wide-open; they remain untaken, and I have no idea why do you think this is my fault.

Amazing how you manage to chain together so many inaccuracies, lies and other nonsense in a single post.

• The more games that run that I don't mod, the happier I am.
• My last two games did not require any level of participation
• You are more than welcome to stay away from my games if you think I am such a tyrant
• Abraham should check the ww scheduling thread before running a game. Just like anyone else. UD's game was announced and therefore it is totally standard you do not post a signup thread for that same week. I applaud his effort and intentions and hope he will retry after UD's game has run (or more likely: has been cancelled due to lack or players)

tchaz

lock wolf

Nah, 2+2 is just dead and that helps to kill POG. gabe and UD do a great job trying to keep this place running. Them having banned and/or alienated a few players from their games doesn't make games not run here.

Things that kill 2+2/POG:

a) MU being an infinitely better site for werewolf.
--a larger community
--automated controls that help the mods and players
--variety of games
--variety of phase lengths

The one area MU had usually lacked was a competent playerbase, but that gap is narrowing every week (except in turbos). Plenty of the good players who still play have migrated to MU and there are plenty of good players from other communities who rise to the top.

b) POG playerbase getting older

c) no reason to click the POG bookmark unless you have vested interest in another game/forum. traffic used to flow in because poker. poker dead. poker site dies in turn. puzzles and other games site on poker site dies in turn turn.

also, really, the only people that appear to be broken up over werewolf games not running here are people who don't really play the games anyway

there's plenty of strongholds who sign up for ~nearly every game that has a sign up posted, but most if not all of them also play on MU.

it doesn't really break my heart when a game is run on MU instead of 2p2 except for the fact that I prefer the 2p2 theme.

i would (and have, in UD's case) implore UD and Gabe to actually shift their future designs to MU rather than POG because their lives would be so much easier re: modding and they'd never have to worry about getting sign ups and i know how annoying it can be as a mod to have to cut roles.

let pog werewolf die

With the obvious exception of MU regulars that are also POG regulars, I do not really like the MU playerbase all that much.

Yep, I think b and c are the big ones. Message boards in general have slowly been dying. Upcoming generation largely doesn't seem to care for message boards

ya 2+2 is just dying, and as a result the older generations weren't really replaced as happened in the past

that's the main issue

i think you could fill a game of your typical size fairly easily with "only the good ones" on MU

second concern is somewhat valid but extremely unlikely (and its not really necessary to use modbot anyway from what I know)

If I would run a game on MU it would be Harry Potter and have a signup limit of 200 or more

I don't have that much of an opinion of MU, because I haven't played or modded there ever. The only (rather negative) experience was when I ran HP7 and wanted to run it on both sites at the same time and it didn't work out in the end for raisins.

2+2 is my forum and I'm kind of loyal to a site that has helped me win thousands of dorrars. I know that I already have paid my debt three times over with my work on CTH and POG, but still. I'm an old man and change scares me.

tchaz saying tat me UD and me are the problem is lolwtf, if we didn't run games, who would. Nobody wanted to run anniversary but UD.

loltchaz
lolmu

So, we are basically talking about the people that would have signed up on POG anyway.

Edit: even if that is not the case, saying “hey guys, I’m new here, but pls don’t sign up if you’re bad, thx” will make me look like a huge jerk.