Err, I mean I didn't think *Win* was seer. Not "Wolf".

Maybe you should get a userid that doesn't start with "W". Could help your game.

Maybe I should get a boobs avatar like brian's. Seems to work well.

rofl

I was very close to punching my monitor when you guys lynched stark. Jesus Christ.

Other than that, gg.

The wolves outplayed the village in every aspect of the game imo

you were the personification of this

Thank you, all for the game. Congratulations, wolves; condolences, fellow villagers; thank you greatly, mister moderator sir.

There was some fine play on both sides, and some poor play as well. Most disappointing was the number of dropouts and near-dropouts; most pleasing was the level of effort some players put in, even as the game dragged seemingly interminably. (I don't think vanilla games should ever be this big, for this reason among others — staying focused is too difficult.) The enthusiasm was far higher than I expected; I hope those of you were very into it, stay that way.

The seer play was an issue, of course, but as others have pointed out we could have saved it. Brian played well under the circumstances, but frankly it should have been apparent to us that he needed to be lynched. That was my failure in part, along with many others'.

Let all players remember, however, what happened here: straightforward play won; fancier play (in this case, a seer hiding his peeks even pretty deep into the game) made it harder to win. Many of you are going to get addicted to fancy play (a few already have, I think) as you continue playing; As you do, recall that some of us manage to dominate while almost never deviating from the straightforward.

Another thing: there were villagers who seemed content with acting villagery to clear themselves, without actually wolfhunting. They were doing half their jobs. This, of course, is a lot more than a few players did...

I will probably not be playing again for a while, for real-life reasns, but I do hope that when I return I will see many of you still playing, and excelling.

Again, congrats to the wolves.

Assorted comments:

This sort of complaining is ugly and inappropriate. For one thing, there was plenty of luck on both sides. And if you are well aware that MM1 did what he could in terms of substitutions, why even bring it up? For you to whine about this even in victory is decidedly unsportsmanlike.

Regarding me in particular: you were aware I was in the game. You could have adapted, and even turned that to your advantage by making your claim (assuming you made it at all) more closely resemble the one that I had previously seen you make as a vanillager. By doing it in an obviously different fashion, you made it nearly impossible for me to allow you to get away with it. (Many players claimed at the time that you were always getting caught d5, but I disagree — you could have saved it under some circumstances.) You would do well not to complain about a turn of fortune that you may have been able to turn to your advantage.


No kidding. He did it as villager in Lost Wolves, too; drove me slightly nuts (though it paled in comparison to everything else that transpired there, of course).


It varies. My view is that it usually bad if the other seer is good, and good if he's bad. A good seer won't be in serious danger of getting lynched, so your having peeked him won't be necessary in order to save him without his coming out, and later in the game if he does come out he'll probably be convincing even without your help. A bad seer on the other hand, may get himself in trouble early, and if you can get him out of trouble without outing himself or you, then that's an obvious victory.

Another issue is that if you peek the other seer you won't wagon him yourself...

On a purely theoretical basis, the peek of a seer does not contribute to the count of villagers needed to lock a game (because the seer gets confirmed anyway), so it's theoretically bad — except in situations where wolves can credibly counterclaim, in which interlocking seer-seer peeks can make that impossible.

I general, if I got to choose I would not peek the other seer, but it's close and it's not as if you do get to choose.


I don't agree (unless you're being sarcastic). I saw good play on both sides, but the most inspired play I saw was the efforts of the top villagers — imo ewalsh, egj, and river. (There were probably others who were really strong before I got involved, particularly Felix, but I have a less-refined view of their play because assessment is easier in real time.)

The wolves won legitimately, but to the implication that they were dominant or that the wolves clearly and convincingly outplayed the village is just not correct.

If it's accidental (as you're explaining that it was), that's fine of course, but intentional slowrolling in a spot like that (where votes lock and/or majority lynch is in effect) is very uncool. Don't anyone every do that, please — when a wolf can put it away, he puts it away.

Did everyone miss this post? Pretty sure this happened after he was "seer cleared" late at night, so I just assumed he was drunk and felt like confessing for some reason. It somehow got completely glossed over though, I think one person responded wat to it and that was that.

And should concessions be a part of the game? There was more than one person who thought that the lack of a concession meant that the game wasn't locked up as it appeared, which seems like it violates the spirit of the game. I guess there's nothing that can be done to keep wolves from coming out if they feel like all hope is lost and it didn't end up costing Brian, but for game balance reasons it seems like concessions should be discouraged so that when the village locks up a game they have to play it out, otherwise it's a big red flag that they don't actually have the game locked up.

Just looks like a joke.

First of all, thx a lot to MoneyMatt and JGarner for modding this game in such a great fashion. Loved the write ups. And I still think – hope - MM was drunk during that one particular lynch write up.

Congrats to the wolves and kudos to Brian for playing out his ‘peek’ really well. You paid me back good for that wolf win I pulled off in the sixfour game. Funny how this game was somehow exactly the opposite of the other one. Our first game together I managed to win because a seer had peeked a player and made his peek too read-like. Now gdpitch made a read too peek-like. In both cases it allowed the wolves to escape with an unlikely victory. It only shows how difficult the seer game is and how careful you have to be about ANYTHING you say as seer. I’m really looking forward to my first feeble attempt at seering.
And thx for your write up, too, Brian. It was a good read - and a good inside into the sick mind of turbo-Caedus.

Village, I’m sorry I let you down. I haven’t been playing my best villa game for the last few days. For a week I was feeling the seemingly sure victory was slipping away under our fingers. And many players didn’t even seem to notice. That part was really frustrating (gamewise).

Win did really well as a seer, villa mvp imo. After he came out, the fun part started: why didn’t the wolves concede? That question kept me busy the remainder of the game. I had 3 possible explanations:
- wolves were too stupid (excusez le mot) to realize they were gone. Based on what looked like horrible seer hunting at that time, I couldn’t rule that out. But with some players - whose names I won’t mention here - gone, I soon ruled that out.
- we misread a peek. This was like the most likely explanation. Unfortunately, all peek tells looked very strong to me, so in the beginning this made no sense.
- a smart wolf expected we would realize the previous point was likely to be true and he could profit from that. I thought that the only ones who could be candidates here would be players who were seen as VERY LIKELY villa. The following were my prime suspects: egj (who had the strongest villa lean) and river (who seemed to be cleared by two seer hunt kills). Ugh! Oh – and I added atak to that list because I thought he may be able to pull this off if he were wolf.

Atak soon managed to move onto my villa list, joining andy who I had become very sure of. With one wolf left it became apparent to me that we as village should get rid of Brian. Even though I was like 99% sure of his peek. But others weren’t, and we couldn’t afford a wrong peek slipping through.
So I came up with an elaborate, cunning Bladricky plan. I hoped the doubt on Brian from other players would be strong enough to get the village to lynch him (you read my intentions there really well Brian). And I tried to devise the plan in such a way that people like egj and river could not profit if they were wolf.
Cadaz (iirc correctly) agreed immediately and went straight to my villa list. But then hell broke loose: TomCollins started to attack me like crazy. Great! Just what the village needed. A confirmed villa going berzerk on me assured that the plan wasn't to be. I really wanted to kick Tom there. Hard.
After that I was less involved in the game, mostly because of real life reasons (Queens Day in the Netherlands, busy weekend).
Then disaster for the village: egj and river attacked stark. I expected one of them making a move sooner or later if they were wolf. Sadly enough, I was too tired to think straight there. I decided not to vote river to trap the wolf. And I did! Only I didn't realize it myself. But Brian's way of playing that day, and him not voting was very wolfy. Such a shame I was too focused on egj and river by then.
I think the last day was inevitable. Even if one of us figured it out, it would have been unlikely he could convince the other one. Or maybe not - if I had voted brian I wonder what egj would have thought about that - why would I do that as a wolf?

Brian did really well, he sucked up to me but still expressed just enough doubt as to not make me suspicious. There were a few moments when I should have been more aware, though.

The first was when Caedus was lynched. Both caedus and brian had expressed a strong opinion on me being villa in the beginning. When Ceadus turned out wolf a small alarm bell went off in my head. Wait - brian was also sucking up to me like that.

Later brian commented on how I won the sixfour game by sucking up to a strong player. Another alarm bell - watch out for brian, he felt like he was doing the same to me.

The one thing I really missed was the night stark got killed. Shame on me.

All in all, it was a very entertaining game. I learned a lot in my first villa game, maybe the biggest lesson is: often the most simple explanation is the true one. At times I overthought situations (f.i. the mdom nk - we should have gotten more info out of that).

Thanks to all for playing, my second rookie game and the second time the quality of play was very good in general.

Some special mentions:
andy: I really liked your game, very strong - until you became bored/cocky in the end.
egj: brothers in shame , next time we'll get them wolves
atak: I thought you started out somewhat sloppy, which made me think you were a wolf. However, you soon put most other villas' efforts to shame. Good job again.
win: excellent seering. You look like a very strong player.
river: I should have made sure you would have stayed alive. Maybe you would have pulled it off.

Hope to see you all again soon.

I wasn't really complaining I was just letting the village know about some things that happened that they probably didn't have an idea about or didn't think of during the game.

Also by the day I was getting bussed we were pretty demoralized(at least I was) and it all of the things together left a sour taste in my mouth so I wanted to share our struggle with everyone else.

Anyone who actually thinks we dominated is out of their mind.... WE COMPLETELY DESTROYED.

no j/k we pulled this one out by the hair of our chinny chin chin..imo

omgomgomg, we won

weeeeeeee nice job brian


thanks for Modding MM1

Yeah, the latter two explanations both seemed possible to me too. I felt that both you and River appeared very clear villagers who as well-hidden wolves might well have elected not to concede, thinking you could get Brian lynched in the end. So when it got down towards the end, I didn't feel feel like the lack of a concession (and the lack of a succesful lynch) pointed strongly towards Brian as the last wolf.

I think it just shows that you should not concede unless you see no possible way of winning because you never know what the village might do. Stark getting lynched was a good example of that.

OSCAR, PLEASE!

Yeah, you fooled me good. Definitely lynching you on n1 next game.

How did the village miss my very last post . Glad I got to provide one extra night of seer cover! LOL at my "peeks" being correct too. The village had so much fail in the last few days we deserved to lose, well played woofs!

all 3 of your peeks were wrong. awesome job

lol

Did you read the last post I made?

No one took you serious anymore by then I guess.