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05-04-2015 , 03:03 PM
Both are ok. Don't fold now obv
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05-04-2015 , 03:08 PM
actually that short as long as you don't fold there's no wrong answer i think. if you guys are really deep then it becomes interesting
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05-04-2015 , 03:29 PM
I don't like raising flop on Hand 1. Getting it in vs. a cold flop 3-bet range is probably really bad. if villain is competent he may not be shoving a naked straight here so we're looking at better draws a ton. (we're prob better off getting it in vs. the nuts/no redraw)

Hand 2 seems fine-ish
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05-04-2015 , 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronk56
Two PLO hands from last week at Aria in the 1 -3 game. Both hands are around $460 effective.

First hand I flop bottom 2, with low flush draw and a nut gutshot on a board with a possible straight, I think it was 654ss and I had 9854ss. Flop action was bet of around 1/2 the pot $35 or so, one fold, I raise about pot $170 (I viewed the 1/2 pot bet as weak) and villain 3 bets putting me all in, it's around $265 to call.

Second hand I flop bottom two with a nut OESD on a T65 rainbow board, I had 8765ds raised pot UTG + 1 pre, SB 3 bet to $35, BB called and I called. Flop checks to me and I bet pot, SB folds and BB raises all-in for just about pot.

The hands occurred on two different days, both villains seemed like regs in the game e.g. knew other people and some of the dealers, neither seemed great but weren't fish.

Did I play both these hands too aggressively on the flop? Flat call in the first hand and take the free card in the second? Calling the shove seems like a no brainer in both hands though in the first hand, I could be drawing slim if I'm up against top set with a better FD.
1st hand plays a lot easier playing it your way and it's a pretty complicated spot so he probably makes a lot of mistakes and we avoid making mistakes on the turn which will often be very tough for us to play

second hand is standard, you can't ever check back flop here, i'd probably bet only like 80% pot on flop

my default play in hand one would probably be just to call but i don't know if it's right

either could be fine sometimes
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05-04-2015 , 03:41 PM
I'd like shoving hand 1 better if he bet higher
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05-04-2015 , 03:48 PM
Anyone going to be at parx for big stax?
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05-04-2015 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckburg
lending?
As a prime member, they have a ton of ebooks you can borrow, but I think only 1 at a time.
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05-04-2015 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggerboat
I think i'm losing money by raising a lot of times. Ex.

V is a typical semi tight reg. Only raised pre with good hands. Folds to raises unless he's way ahead.

V raises to 8 in mid position. I call with 45h. I'd rather not get in a preflop decision discussion here. I'm experimenting with range.

Anyway, flop is 679hh. V opens 10, i call. Turn is 3d (bink!). V bets 25. I raise to 75. V folds.

I feel like i should have flatted here. I'm thinking nothing on the river could improve him and i get some value on river.

Thoughts?
Do you ever raise there as a bluff?
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05-04-2015 , 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnord_too
Do you ever raise there as a bluff?
The extent of my bluffing is cbetting flops i miss. So, no.
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05-04-2015 , 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmRobik
Anyone going to be at parx for big stax?
What / when is this.

I am contemplating giving live a real shot. Sounds like a tourney; I hate the time commitment but tournies are so soft.
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05-04-2015 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnord_too
As a prime member, they have a ton of ebooks you can borrow, but I think only 1 at a time.
thanks- did not know that.
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05-04-2015 , 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggerboat
The extent of my bluffing is cbetting flops i miss. So, no.
That's a leak then. If you are only ever raising big made hands here then villain will own you with correct folds. Once in the next couple times you play, bluff raise him on a board that doesn't hit his tight range but is coordinated. He can't have it both ways, if he never pays you off bluff him some.
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05-04-2015 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnord_too
What / when is this.

I am contemplating giving live a real shot. Sounds like a tourney; I hate the time commitment but tournies are so soft.
it's already underway:

https://www.parxcasino.com/bigstax
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05-04-2015 , 04:33 PM
Bigger, raise 54hh on the flop pk lease.
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05-04-2015 , 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudib1
Bigger, raise 54hh on the flop pk lease.
aye aye aye

bet, raise, flat, fold - so many decisions. poker is hard.
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05-04-2015 , 07:58 PM
OK, here's one of my biggest weaknesses. The fear of doing something wrong.

When I'm passive I feel like I'm reacting to something and that something I feel pretty confident I have a read on most of the time.

But raising, betting, and bluffing sort of paralyze me. I constantly second-guess my decisions. If don't raise or I bet smaller maybe they don't fold and I get more on the next street. If they call I feel like I didn't bet enough. If someone calls my bluff then I second guess any future bluffs.

Probably need a shrink or something.
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05-04-2015 , 09:15 PM
I think you are just scared of losing.

54s is a terrible hand to call here preflop because it performs horribly HU and you don't even know why you're calling. If you want to call suited cards then there are far far better ones to call with than this; if you are flatting 54s HU vs. MP PFR then you are calling WAY too often.

You aren't even considering the range of the PFR and that's a serious problem. If the PFR has a tight range you are running into too many strong hands and you will be unable to play your equity aggressively (no one has ever made money in Texas Hold'em by trying to get $1-$2 players to fold over pairs).

For example, you could probably flat 22 here instead of 54 and it will play much easier. First, because you'll rarely get squeezed and when you hit, you almost always have the best hand. So even though you are folding the flop the vast majority of the time, when you don't fold you're printing money.

When you flat 54s, you are burning money because you're either folding the best hand too often or paying off too often.

If he's opening much wider, it's more justifiable but you still don't flop well that often. When you do flop well, especially this well, you really need to pile as much money as possible in on the flop before your equity gets cut in half -- you're a favorite over 2 black Aces and you have the dummy end of the straight draw that will make the board really scary. Also, you have no SDV so exercising fold equity is paramount (this hand plays better against someone opening 30% than 22 does, but you need to push it when you flop big draws).
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05-04-2015 , 09:30 PM
I think you missed the fact that you have no initiative in the hand, which means that you're the one making the mistake and not him. If you have initiative and are the PFR, then you are able to barrel and make him f*** up by folding when he's not supposed to. Granted, you generally won't be making that mistake, but it's quite possible that you would have the best hand if you flop a 5, but it's going to be hard to continue with it for 3 streets.
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05-04-2015 , 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronk56
Two PLO hands from last week at Aria in the 1 -3 game. Both hands are around $460 effective.

First hand I flop bottom 2, with low flush draw and a nut gutshot on a board with a possible straight, I think it was 654ss and I had 9854ss. Flop action was bet of around 1/2 the pot $35 or so, one fold, I raise about pot $170 (I viewed the 1/2 pot bet as weak) and villain 3 bets putting me all in, it's around $265 to call.

Second hand I flop bottom two with a nut OESD on a T65 rainbow board, I had 8765ds raised pot UTG + 1 pre, SB 3 bet to $35, BB called and I called. Flop checks to me and I bet pot, SB folds and BB raises all-in for just about pot.

The hands occurred on two different days, both villains seemed like regs in the game e.g. knew other people and some of the dealers, neither seemed great but weren't fish.

Did I play both these hands too aggressively on the flop? Flat call in the first hand and take the free card in the second? Calling the shove seems like a no brainer in both hands though in the first hand, I could be drawing slim if I'm up against top set with a better FD.
2nd hand i prob 4bet pre and obv call off on flop
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05-05-2015 , 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmRobik
I think you missed the fact that you have no initiative in the hand, which means that you're the one making the mistake and not him. If you have initiative and are the PFR, then you are able to barrel and make him f*** up by folding when he's not supposed to. Granted, you generally won't be making that mistake, but it's quite possible that you would have the best hand if you flop a 5, but it's going to be hard to continue with it for 3 streets.
This isn't 2012, initiative isn't a real concept
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05-05-2015 , 12:23 AM
Initiative reflects the type of hands that each player is expected to have in their ranges.
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05-05-2015 , 12:40 AM
Don't see any reason to 4 bet that plo hand pre. OK I see like one reason but doesn't seem great.

Calling in position with a hand that's easy to play seems good
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05-05-2015 , 12:56 AM
why 4 bet the 2nd hand when you can call and play perfect poker?
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05-05-2015 , 01:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudib1

If he's opening much wider, it's more justifiable but you still don't flop well that often. When you do flop well, especially this well, you really need to pile as much money as possible in on the flop before your equity gets cut in half -- you're a favorite over 2 black Aces and you have the dummy end of the straight draw that will make the board really scary. Also, you have no SDV so exercising fold equity is paramount (this hand plays better against someone opening 30% than 22 does, but you need to push it when you flop big draws).
to clarify this, Bigger, playing 22 against a very strong, tight range is profitable because you have implied odds when you hit your set.

Playing 22 against wide range is not profitable because you're folding the best hand too often.

Playing 54s against tight range isn't great because you're running into a brick wall when you play your equity aggressively. It's easier to flop an 8- or 9-out draw or play a flopped small pair aggressively against a weaker range.
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05-05-2015 , 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudib1
I think you are just scared of losing.

That is part of it but the fear of making a mistake is worse. It's a personality trait I have. I do this with a lot of life decisions.

54s is a terrible hand to call here preflop because it performs horribly HU and you don't even know why you're calling. If you want to call suited cards then there are far far better ones to call with than this; if you are flatting 54s HU vs. MP PFR then you are calling WAY too often.

You aren't even considering the range of the PFR and that's a serious problem. If the PFR has a tight range you are running into too many strong hands and you will be unable to play your equity aggressively (no one has ever made money in Texas Hold'em by trying to get $1-$2 players to fold over pairs).

For example, you could probably flat 22 here instead of 54 and it will play much easier. First, because you'll rarely get squeezed and when you hit, you almost always have the best hand. So even though you are folding the flop the vast majority of the time, when you don't fold you're printing money.

When you flat 54s, you are burning money because you're either folding the best hand too often or paying off too often.

If he's opening much wider, it's more justifiable but you still don't flop well that often. When you do flop well, especially this well, you really need to pile as much money as possible in on the flop before your equity gets cut in half -- you're a favorite over 2 black Aces and you have the dummy end of the straight draw that will make the board really scary. Also, you have no SDV so exercising fold equity is paramount (this hand plays better against someone opening 30% than 22 does, but you need to push it when you flop big draws).
It's not like I'm a limp/calling machine. I'm just trying to mix things up a little. I don't always play 45s. But your point of "you don't even know why your are calling" is valid.

I've been sooooo card dead the last few sessions that I believe my image is a rock. Last session I got AT once, AA once, and JJ once. That was the extent of my "playable" hands. I just feel like a call like this every once in a while isn't horrible.

And back to the raise. My opponents just fold every time I raise now which I think goes back to image.

But "you need to push it when you flop big draws" is a great point. Something I haven't been doing.

FWIW, I don't think I'm playing horrible. I'm consistently winning, just not very much.
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