If there's no value in betting JJ postflop then there wasn't value in threebetting it. And once we check the flop and call the turn then we've completely given up all informational control in the hand and we're just clicking buttons on the river. Like it's really really hard for a competent player to ever misplay a hand against a guy that's checked with the initiative and then called on the next street.

i probably made a bad hero value bet last night, but it worked! and villain was so enraged.

folds to my button i have AQ and i open for 80(might have been 60, i usually open my button for 60). SB 3bets to 300. i think he knows i open wide from the button. i know this guy likes to 3bet AXs. i call.

flop is AJ6r
he checks
i check

turn is 7
he checks
i bet 400
he calls

river is T, so AJ76T
he checks
i bet 800???
he calls and mucks lol!!!

the ol bluff call. had to keep ya honest

Might help if you told us what you had.

What did you have?

lol oops. i had AQ

I appreciate the responses so far.

Ok my feeling regarding the c/r on the flop was that it was polarized between value hands, QQ+ and bluffs, mainly semi-bluffs. Since my hand at that point is a bluff-catcher and I'm probably getting pressure on the turn and/or river folding may have been right.

I decided to call figuring he might slow down with his bluffs if a bad card came on the Turn. The 2 is a total brick so I think folding the turn after calling the c/r on the flop is a mistake. If I called the flop I should be willing to go all the way with the hand on a favorable run out, no? I think his turn sizing was pretty good from a leverage point of view since he is betting $300 but I have to figure I'm playing for stacks if I call.

is AQ a hero value bet?

like when is it ever not good there?

i think 3betting a lag from ep is ok with JJ *if* you are sure about his opening wide even from utg. i think cbetting Q32 is good too. but i wouldn't worry about the flush, especially since you have Jd. i would be cbetting for value.

then i'd probably fold to a c/r

what can he call me with that i beat? A9, A8, A5-A2, KK, QQ. that's it.

but what beats you? AT? JT? they are the only two that make any sense and AT prob bets at some point. Maybe KQ too if he's bad.

Q32dd is such a tough board to have a hand, I feel like we need to call down with JJ barring a horrible river (Kd for instance)

calling flop raise and folding to a similar size turn bet is a large mistake.

Sometimes I take that line with big hands when I expect to make more on average snapping off bluffs or getting a suspicious river call, but that's me.

Anyway, you are assuming he is betting all turns when you check. That's great for our range v's his, all the trash he would have folded he's now betting, and his range is much weaker than his flop calling range.

I don't actually think you are assuming he's firing all turns if we check, so you really need to include those into your analysis imo. This board just doesn't hit either of our ranges hard so I don't think you'll often see more than two called bets here in any case (in general; raise 3 b call pre then this flop). I would think checking most of our heavy value hands like aa is probably good here. Dunno.)

100% agree, I think this was the biggest mistake in the hand.

It's a really bad result for us when he gets to check down hands like 77.

We also miss out on value when an ace or king falls even if our hand is still good.

If he was bluffing on the flop it was probably to make us fold all of our air, not to blow us off of an overpair. His range for firing the turn should be a lot smaller than his range for raising the flop.

I'm wasn't suggesting checking it down, but calling the turn or betting if checked to.

I'm still pondering this. If you bet what do you do when check raised? Maybe I am over estimating his bluff range here, the flop seems like a really good one to bluff raise if you have that in your arsenal at all.

how do you define misplay a hand?

I mean it kinda feels stupid when we stack off and he shows us AQ but really, we have so few hands to defend on this board I have a hard time finding a fold.

i feel like every time i call a flop c/r and reevaluate the turn they always bet the turn

sometimes i put out a bet of 50 or whatever and the other person throws his hips sort of on top of mine

i always think this is weak

i saw that typo but decided to leave it

Actually having a plan > Call and reevaluate > call and play poker.

do people actually make flop decisions after having a full plan AKA draw out all branches of the decision tree? Rather than evaluate each decision tree forks one decision at a time

seems unproductive given the level of uncertainty I'd rather have a vague idea on what to do if x or y happens and make the best possible decision at that one point

i always stay an orbit or two too long and lose back a bunch of money

what a poker leak

got to hit and run!