Bernie was also attacked by these two, ftr, when it looked like he might actually have a chance.

I don't think we're allowed to criticize the judgements of black people when it comes to politics.

I mean here is Cornel West talking about "black faces in high places" not working because those black leaders become too accommodating to the rich and powerful and also saying they are losing legitimacy:



Is he not an ally? Am I allowed to agree with him?

Except, as I showed with the video of Cornel West, there are plenty of black people and black leaders that are saying the exact thing that Filthy is saying.

Chim is doing what is very common with liberals, where they hold up black voices only when they support their points of view.

The hard left, and by hard left I am talking about the groups of people most critical of the United Sates government and capitalism at its most fundamental level, is made up people of color, transgender people, homsexual people, and whatever other groups that have been historically oppressed by the system. Those voices of course never get brought up and are totally ignored by liberals.

So I am not sure why we are doing this "Filthy is not an ally" thing. If he were to agree with people that voting for Biden was the correct tactical move wouldn't be then not be listening to all the people on the hard left I just mentioned?

"attacked" lol

being critical of politicians and their policies is what people should be doing. I am not into hero worship and if Sanders or anyone else is not doing what I want I will of course voice my criticism--and you should be doing the same.

Didn't early Malcolm actually oppose racial integration?

Before we go down this path, are you comfortable saying your earlier statement was inaccurate, and filthy was indeed criticizing individuals and the group?

I just find it noteworthy that you guys are now holding him up as a beacon but when he had legs he was trash iyo.

idk about "the group", not 100% to what that refers

But sure, he seems to be criticizing people who were calling for people to vote for Joe Biden.

This is not what I’m doing. This all started from a question I asked him about the view of voting for Biden after he was the nominee while preparing to protest Biden. From a professor of history, black, most anti capitalist person I know. Filthy had no interest in his views. Filthy does what you are accusing me of.

do you want to show me where I held him us as a "beacon"?

So since we are not talking about the system here, tell me what we are criticizing about people specifically who say “Biden is better than Trump, so we need to vote him while being ready to demonstrate against Biden” when the alternative is more Trump.

Are you asking what I specifically disagree with about the suggested course of action in bold?

i'll be allied with the black panther party, birdman, malcolm x, che, caesar chavez, crazy horse, geronimo

if for some reason chim thinks that makes me a racist elitist, i guess i'll just have to live with that

I never. Ever. Said you were a racist. If you took that from my post I apologize.

start off demonstrating biden by not voting for him.

look, i'm not that against voting for biden. almost everyone i love voted for biden. my real problem is ignoring biden's many many horrific flaws.

i'm pretty happy with people who vote for biden over trump, and also call out his racism, sexism, history of war and corruption, and that of the democratic party.

also, this convo didn't start out as biden vs trump. iirc it started out with you mentioning south carolina primary and biden won a huge majority of the black vote, over bernie. which was heart breaking to me. biden has a clear history of racism, which bernie does not. and iirc there were corrupt black dem leaders who endorsed biden over bernie.

and i remember hearing some reasoning behind voting for biden over bernie even though biden was more racist, is because of low expectations. that usa would elect a racist like biden, but not someone as radical as bernie. and a lot of the black community felt like trump was backlash over obama winning. and they didn't want to go through something like that again. which is understandable, but still heartbreaking.. whether it's correct or not.

What is the criticism of a person who has shared endless examples about how their life (and community) is demonstrably worse under Trump, saying Biden is a terrible answer, but we're forced into a dichotomy so choose that answer and then move into the next phase of protesting that answer.

Filthy, this wasn't me, but that context helps, thank you.

I'm specifically speaking to the dichotomy of 11/3.

I voted for and donated to Bernie (though did vote for Biden last week). I don't even disagree with what you're saying in this post, I just got very fired up with "Well, that person is simply wrong" when trying to balance difficult and nuanced issues.

I'm truly sorry if you took my posts as calling you a racist elitist, or something like it. I think your views when I brought it up before were super arrogant and dismissive, but I never intended to make that implication. I'm sorry if it came off that way, I was perhaps emotionally charged.

IANAW really kind of disappeared after this, didn't he?

ah, got it! sorry! that makes a big difference.

this reminds me of 2008 when obama won, and everyone was celebrating, and i despised obama. i was in the haight ashbury and remember everyone going crazy with joy. this hippy was yelling "i love america!" and it was heartbreaking to me... that is really about poor, peace loving americans though, and not really about the black community.

i clearly remember seeing the faces of black people i loved, and the joy, relief, pride, pain, and so many other emotions on their faces. it still makes me tear up thinking of it. i thought obama was scum lol, but i can understand that kind of symbolism. especially in the kids.

no worries man. it's an emotional time. i too am overly aggro/whatever *sigh*

and i can be dismissive and arrogant

VMF at what point will you consider biden to have "won" the election?

scum to hero

hitler>>>>trump>>>>biden>>warren>>>>>>>sanders>met s> neutral >gandhi>mlk>>birdman>>>>malcolm x